Tillman Tonight

[Lucky Jim]

That's a pretty nice scouting report.

For me, it's all about whether Tillman can develop a consistent set of mechanics that allow him to be effective most of the time. This guy has pitched a ton of low-hit games in the majors and in AAA since 2009. But he's also pitched a ton of lousy games. I'd be happier if I felt he could give us a reasonably good game 3 out of every 4 starts, even if the 3 good games weren't as spectacular as several that he has thrown.

I'm no expert. And I was working while watching. So, take it with a grain of salt. I agree wholly w/r/t consistency.

Again, good stat line but he hasn't stringed together 2-4 starts like this in years at any level. The increased velocity sounds good. The low velocity that increases sounds a lot like the guy who threw 87-89 in the first couple of innings before getting into the 90-92 area he used to. I guess the scale has gone up at least. I will anxiously await his next start. People say he has a plus changeup which I don't agree with. Strange that he hardly uses it, isn't it?

Well, his pitch values have always been good (or at least, better than his other pitches). To me his arm speed/differential and fade have always been good. I think it's overall use was hampered by diminished velocity and troubles w/ his curve. I imagine we'll see it again at some point, if we ever see him pitching in the MLB.

The results are the same. I'll refer back to post #65 and #73 in that regard. Yes, I have an entrenched opinion of TIllman at this point. He needs to prove to me otherwise, and yes, he can start to do that without me having watched any of his games.I want to see him start getting deeper in games, limiting his pitch count, lower his BBs and become more consistent from start to start.

Thanks for your insight.

But, to be clear, you don't want to see this - you haven't, in your idle scanning of box scores, and now want to make a decision about the bullpen because you haven't seen it. There's a big difference, given his work w/ Peterson and how early in the season it is. I want to see that, and thus I'm patient.

[Lucky Jim]

Legit question eh?? Yeah, you really phrased it as a legit question. No condescension in your tone at all.

Tone is tricky on the internet. You're reading into it there. I was legitimately curious - I've tried to catch a number of MiLB games on TV this year and failed, and hate that I don't get to see people I discuss w/ my own eyes. Your use of "right now" made me think you were dealing with first-hand impressions.

Look, I've already said that I understand why people want to see him in the pen. I'm not trying to argue anyone out of that position. I've articulated my position re: patience, and am instead dealing with folks who won't let go as if I'm irrational. I'm not. I'm rational, even if I'm wrong. It should be easy just to let me continue to be (in whoever's eyes) wrong. Me and Rick Peterson (and Weams and OFFNY).

[ccbird]

Tone is tricky on the internet. You're reading into it there. I was legitimately curious - I've tried to catch a number of MiLB games on TV this year and failed, and hate that I don't get to see people I discuss w/ my own eyes. Your use of "right now" made me think you were dealing with first-hand impressions.

Look, I've already said that I understand why people want to see him in the pen. I'm not trying to argue anyone out of that position. I've articulated my position re: patience, and am instead dealing with folks who won't let go as if I'm irrational. I'm not. I'm rational, even if I'm wrong. It should be easy just to let me continue to be (in whoever's eyes) wrong. Me and Rick Peterson (and Weams and OFFNY).

Fair enough. We'll drop it.This all kind of tumbled downhill. Like I said, I understand your stubbornness and therefore your patience. We obviously stand on different sides on Tillman but I truely wasn't trying to pick a fight with my question about TIllman vs Hernandez. I had been thinking about the two for awhile in why in general O's fans were ready to transition a pitcher like Hernandez but show prolonged patience with Tillman. Your answer in regards to that question was valid.

[Lucky Jim]

Fair enough. We'll drop it.This all kind of tumbled downhill. Like I said, I understand your stubbornness and therefore your patience. We obviously stand on different sides on Tillman but I truely wasn't trying to pick a fight with my question about TIllman vs Hernandez. I had been thinking about the two for awhile in why in general O's fans were ready to transition a pitcher like Hernandez but show prolonged patience with Tillman. Your answer in regards to that question was valid.

If you read that thread that I posted earlier, you'll see me making very similar arguments re: DH that you're making about Tillman now (though a bit more real-time based on his MLB performance) and defending that against DH's crew of supporters. Most of this stuff is a matter of timing. Information accrues and we make determinations. Not everyone gets there at the same moment, I guess.

[justD]

My concern with Tillman (and I bear a scar on my forehead that I call the "Tillman Mark of Excellence" from a foul ball he pitched, so I want him to succeed) is that it seems to me he loses focus when men get on base.

Last night, the first hitter to get on base distracted him to the point that he threw wildly in a pickoff attempt, the ball ending up in foul territory, moving the runner to second. It was one of only two men on base during his 8 IP, and he made an error with him on.

It may be a chicken-or-egg argument, but the pattern I've seen seems to demonstrate that he just hasn't gelled on how to pitch with men on.

I'd almost like to see him have several outings where there are more runners on base but he remains just as poised on the mound, strikeouts continuing, double plays induced, etc. That would really prove a lot to me. Not being able to do so is what I fear will undermine his ability to make it back to the Major League level as a starter (or reliever?).

[weams]

My concern with Tillman (and I bear a scar on my forehead that I call the "Tillman Mark of Excellence" from a foul ball he pitched, so I want him to succeed) is that it seems to me he loses focus when men get on base.

Last night, the first hitter to get on base distracted him to the point that he threw wildly in a pickoff attempt, the ball ending up in foul territory, moving the runner to second. It was one of only two men on base during his 8 IP, and he made an error with him on.

It may be a chicken-or-egg argument, but the pattern I've seen seems to demonstrate that he just hasn't gelled on how to pitch with men on.

I'd almost like to see him have several outings where there are more runners on base but he remains just as poised on the mound, strikeouts continuing, double plays induced, etc. That would really prove a lot to me. Not being able to do so is what I fear will undermine his ability to make it back to the Major League level as a starter (or reliever?).

You have told me this for a very long time. I want to believe that his whole problem has not been a psychological TTTP aversion. I wanted to believe that both Brian Matusz and Chris Tillman would benefit from a surf free offseasson. I thought he looked great last evening and This was his second real good AAA start in a row.

[JayThomas]

My concern with Tillman (and I bear a scar on my forehead that I call the "Tillman Mark of Excellence" from a foul ball he pitched, so I want him to succeed) is that it seems to me he loses focus when men get on base.

Last night, the first hitter to get on base distracted him to the point that he threw wildly in a pickoff attempt, the ball ending up in foul territory, moving the runner to second. It was one of only two men on base during his 8 IP, and he made an error with him on.

It may be a chicken-or-egg argument, but the pattern I've seen seems to demonstrate that he just hasn't gelled on how to pitch with men on.

I'd almost like to see him have several outings where there are more runners on base but he remains just as poised on the mound, strikeouts continuing, double plays induced, etc. That would really prove a lot to me. Not being able to do so is what I fear will undermine his ability to make it back to the Major League level as a starter (or reliever?).

Speaking of chicken-or-egg, this begs the question: is it men on base or pitching from the stretch. If the latter, then Mr. Peterson should be able to help Chris to achieve repeatable successful mechanics.

Maybe Chris should just start games pitching from the stretch for a while. Even if he's flustered with men on base it might sooth his nerves a little if he knew he could get good results on his pitches from the stretch.

[OFFNY]

.

For better or for worse, we are probably going to need Tillman and/or Steve Johnson in the very near future.

Depending on how they pitch when they come up, their stay (in Baltimore) may be long, short, or medium, but we pretty much need them right now.

It's no longer a choice, it's a necessity.

[oriolekid]

People need to ask themselves this

Do they feel more comfortable at the moment with Chris Tillman facing ML batters, or Jake Arrieta?

It's not about becoming an effective, MOR guy, it's about whether or not Tillman can do better than an 8 ERA in 8 starts.

[Il BuonO]

Does anyone know if Tillman starts tonight? I thought he was supposed to go last night but Britton may have pushed him back.

[glenn__davis]

People need to ask themselves this

Do they feel more comfortable at the moment with Chris Tillman facing ML batters, or Jake Arrieta?

It's not about becoming an effective, MOR guy, it's about whether or not Tillman can do better than an 8 ERA in 8 starts.

Personally I feel more confident in Arrieta. And I do not feel very confident in Arrieta.

Here's hoping Tillman can put together a string of good starts.

[Frobby]

People need to ask themselves this

Do they feel more comfortable at the moment with Chris Tillman facing ML batters, or Jake Arrieta?

It's not about becoming an effective, MOR guy, it's about whether or not Tillman can do better than an 8 ERA in 8 starts.

Chris Tillman has a 5.58 ERA in 32 big league starts. Jake Arrieta has a 5.03 ERA in 52 big league starts. I'm not that confident in either one of them. They both frustrate me immensely because they are both talented but can't seem to harness their talent with any consistency.

[stef]

Does anyone know if Tillman starts tonight? I thought he was supposed to go last night but Britton may have pushed him back.

He is scheduled to start tonight.

http://norfolk.tides.milb.com/index.jsp?sid=t568

[OFFNY]

.

CHRIS TILLMAN O(June 6th)

IP:o 0

H:o. 0

R:O. 0

BB:. 0

SO:. 0

Pitches: 000 (00 Strikes, 00 Balls)

2012 ERA: 4.15

http://www.milb.com/index.jsp?sid=t568

[DrOrioles90210]

5 perfect innings with 5 strikeouts so far.