For Those Screaming For Headley

[El Gordo]

I don't think we can really know what the PADs asked or what we offered. What we do know is that a lot of teams were after Headley and no one got him. There were plenty of reports from other GMs that the PADs were asking the moon and the stars. Matusz, Arrieta, and Schoop, is not the moon and the stars IMO.

[RichmondOsFan]

Do these number take into account the Headley's home park?

Yes, both WAR and wRC+ are park, league and year neutral.

[OrioleMagic]

Just checked this thread again. I learned a lot. (I think.)

[Mondo Trasho]

Headley doesn't seem like a guy who's worth what it would take to get him. Plus, we'd have to move Machado off 3rd after he had a great half season and postseason there, and we'd have to move Hardy. And really, we'd have to trade Hardy, moving him to second doesn't seem like a good idea. He's not Jeff Reboulet where you can just shuttle him around the infield and expect him to not miss a beat.

The left side of the infield isn't broken, why are we trying to fix it. And moreso, why are we looking for the most expensive fix to this non-existent problem?

[24fps]

Headley doesn't seem like a guy who's worth what it would take to get him. Plus, we'd have to move Machado off 3rd after he had a great half season and postseason there, and we'd have to move Hardy. And really, we'd have to trade Hardy, moving him to second doesn't seem like a good idea. He's not Jeff Reboulet where you can just shuttle him around the infield and expect him to not miss a beat.

The left side of the infield isn't broken, why are we trying to fix it. And moreso, why are we looking for the most expensive fix to this non-existent problem?

Why do the French think Jerry Lewis is a genius? I mean this whole Chase Headly obsession is exactly that bizarre.

[isestrex]

Why do the French think Jerry Lewis is a genius? I mean this whole Chase Headly obsession is exactly that bizarre.

[brianod]

Yes, both WAR and wRC+ are park, league and year neutral.

Which means they are all flawed imho. You can't simplify value into one stat, there must always be room for human judgment. It's a worthy goal but any summary stat must make assumptions and those assumptions don't always apply.

[CA-ORIOLE]

Which means they are all flawed imho. You can't simplify value into one stat, there must always be room for human judgment. It's a worthy goal but any summary stat must make assumptions and those assumptions don't always apply.

Then make judgements based on your observations, analysis and/or other supporting stats. Every stat is flawed to some degree.

[Flash- bd]

Then make judgements based on your observations, analysis and/or other supporting stats. Every stat is flawed to some degree.

Cue the Jaws music...

http://forum.orioleshangout.com/forums/showthread.php/123962-Why-do-people-value-WAR-Arbitrary-formulas?highlight=people+arbitrary

[DrungoHazewood]

Which means they are all flawed imho. You can't simplify value into one stat, there must always be room for human judgment. It's a worthy goal but any summary stat must make assumptions and those assumptions don't always apply.

So come up with a better way. A better framework. You may not agree with all of the assumptions that go into WAR or wRC+. But what do you use? If it's mentally combining other numbers, like OPS and defense, or AVG/SLG/OBP/observed defense... well, then I'd suggest that your subjective human judgment is doing the same thing WAR is doing, just less carefully and less accurately.

Sure, if there's something you observe that makes Headley's numbers suspect, let's hear it. Does PETCO uniquely and negatively/positively effect Headley's game in some way that park effects don't capture? Is Headley somehow less or more effected by the offensive changes of the last several years? Is Headley's game exceptionally well/poorly suited for some nuance of National League baseball? I see no evidence for these things. Without evidence of uniqueness, your best bet is to go with the general case.

[Roll Tide]

Why do the French think Jerry Lewis is a genius? I mean this whole Chase Headly obsession is exactly that bizarre.

The Orioles need one more productive IF (doesnt matter position because you can dump Reynolds, Machado/Hardy are moving parts) Is Headley the best of what could be available??? They also need a OF/DH that is a middle of the order #4 guy.

[lovetoaster]

I don't think we can really know what the PADs asked or what we offered. What we do know is that a lot of teams were after Headley and no one got him. There were plenty of reports from other GMs that the PADs were asking the moon and the stars. Matusz, Arrieta, and Schoop, is not the moon and the stars IMO.

Well said, Gordo. My sentiments exactly.

[Slappy]

We don't need Headley. Machado will be as good or better going forward, both at the plate and in the field. And San Diego isn't going to dump him, in fact I wouldn't be surprised if he was extended this offseason.

[Brendan25]

I never heard that a high first round draft choice and a first round money fifth rounder were enough to get Chase. I thought that the names Machado and Schoop were also kicked around. I know that they wanted a ton for him even before he had his best half season ever.

That's he same feeling I got from all of the talks.