Report: Morosi says a source links us with Hamilton and Ross

[TradeAngelos]

For the record, if we sign Hamilton, and he is worth about $20M in 2014, then in two years we will have 84M locked up in 5 players. Adam Jones, Nick Markakis, JJ Hardy, Wei-Yin Chen, and Josh Hamilton.

84M + Wieters + Davis + Jim Johnson + Pedro Strop + Darren O'Day + Machado

Plus a possible Hammel extension

Plus whoever our 2B is

Plus Gonzalez & Tillman

Plus Britton who will be arb eligible

Plus Tommy Hunter

That has the potential to be a fairly large payroll.

Especially if Wieters signs an extension before then.

What in the world are you talking about??

The projected O's payroll falls off a cliff after 2013, even with re-signing Wieters.

2014 has only $50 million on the books WITH $10 million for Wieters.

2015 has $25.69 million WITH $12 million on the books for Wieters.

And who the heck knows what will happen with those ***potential*** signings for who knows what type of money, which won't be much unless all those guys suddenly turn into superstars. Even if they did we could still pay them all.

[Dark Helmet]

You just can't resist can you? You told me to stop replying to you. You told be to go cyberbully someone else. If that's really what you want, I suggest you stop antagonizing me.

Yeah well, like you said..."I just couldn't resist". I didn't really feel bullied. Just got tired of the "smugness" of your responses to me.

[lovetoaster]

Unless the topic is maximizing profits in a small market.

Very true. Maximizing them by any underhanded, nefarious, deceitful means possible.

[Dark Helmet]

What in the world are you talking about??

The projected O's payroll falls off a cliff after 2013, even with re-signing Wieters.

2014 has only $50 million on the books WITH $10 million for Wieters.

2015 has $25.69 million WITH $12 million on the books for Wieters.

And who the heck knows what will happen with those ***potential*** signings for who knows what type of money, which won't be much unless all those guys suddenly turn into superstars. Even if they did we could still pay them all.

They also don't take into consideration, that Wieters, Machado, and Bundy might not WANT to exyend with the O's. Especially if they are showing no desire to building a team with a real shot at contending. Bundy especially (Going by some of his father's comment's) seems like a guy that will chase the money. And that most likely won't be with the O's.

[Dark Helmet]

I don't think anyone in their right mind thinks that is a good way to run a baseball team. The Marlins of the last decade should never be cited as an example of good baseball business.

Where did I site them as an example of a good business model? I gave them as an example, that it's possible to unload bad contracts, and get some quality back in return. No where, did I state the Oriole's should follow the models mold, as a way to run the franchise.

[Brendan25]

What in the world are you talking about??

The projected O's payroll falls off a cliff after 2013, even with re-signing Wieters.

2014 has only $50 million on the books WITH $10 million for Wieters.

2015 has $25.69 million WITH $12 million on the books for Wieters.

And who the heck knows what will happen with those ***potential*** signings for who knows what type of money, which won't be much unless all those guys suddenly turn into superstars. Even if they did we could still pay them all.

You're correct. My math was way off somehow.

In 2014 Nick Markakis is getting 15, Adam Jones is getting 13, JJ Hardy is getting 7, Chen is getting 4.07.

[Brendan25]

They also don't take into consideration, that Wieters, Machado, and Bundy might not WANT to exyend with the O's. Especially if they are showing no desire to building a team with a real shot at contending. Bundy especially (Going by some of his father's comment's) seems like a guy that will chase the money. And that most likely won't be with the O's.

Well some of you want us to trade them anyway if it means we can compete for a championship for one season.

[Mr Snuffleupagus]

Here's my best illustration of how I see it...

The Orioles in the early to mid 2000's tried to start a fire with only this:

+

The result was we couldn't get anything started because our solution was signing one big free agent and giving him no support (ala Tejada and Belle signings)

The next option is not spending big, but continuing to find talent like we have, grow it in our system, find guys other teams gave up on and hope they revitalize their career at the right time, and this is a good start, it got us here, but not finding an elite veteran or two leaves us looking for scraps all the time and has a very high risk of our nice flame burning out before we can find enough guys like this to keep it going...

So here is my analogy with this "moderate spending" approach:

+

There are a few teams that use this approach, they show up once in awhile, don't actually win the WS but make a big splash, and then fall back down and try again...few years later, they come back, don't win the WS but make some noise, just to die back down again...

Now that we have a team that is a really good foundation with a very young average age and lots of talent and potential (the kindling), we need an established superstar (a log or two) to keep it going...

Doesn't this look like a more reliable solution?

+ +

If the logs are wet, we can get rid of them (via trade for legit prospects, or even salary dump trades) and keep the kindling going until one of them becomes a real log on their own and decides to not leave for FA or go out and get another log...but we do have to keep the kindling going...

does that illustrate my stance? you don't have to agree with it, and if you don't, we won't be able to convince each other anyway, but just so you understand where I'm coming from...

Looks like someone is a little to proud of their kindle/twigs/fire metaphor.

Here, let me help...

Buying logs will give you firewood for a day. Growing your own logs (uh, trees ) will give you a firewood for life.

[OrioleMagic79]

Or Hamilton could become awful, we could become stuck with an AWFUL contract (Carl Crawford) and have to trade away one of our best players with that contract just to get it off the books so we can move forward with our franchise.

Just saying, there are other scenarios to this.

you're right, this is possible, but is it even close to the most likely scenario? I mean, AWFUL?

Let me put it this way...I want to roll the dice while they're in my hands, because if I lose control of the table before I roll them, I'm just as bad off as if I would have rolled them and lost big...

I would trade a World Series victory next year or in 2014 for another 14 years of mediocrity...so that's how I determine my stance on signing JH...he gives me a better shot at that chance, and signing him doesn't even guarantee the dooms day scenarios that all those on the moderate spending side are putting out there...so it's not so grim looking IMO...in fact things are brighter than they have been in a really long time, so I don't want to be complacent and lose that...at least not without trying to keep it...

[TradeAngelos]

From Cot's, payroll commitments right now.

2013 - 53.57

2014 - 41.68

2015 - 14.95

2016 - 16.33

2017 - 16.33

2018 - 17.33

The bolded is Adam Jones obviously. All by himself.

[Dark Helmet]

Is that really what we want to do? We sign a bunch of awful contracts (Reyes & Buehrle), we finish .500 or worse, and we need to trade them away with our ace just to get those contracts off our books. These are contracts they JUST did last year. And they regret them already.

The only player i've ever mentioned that I want the O's to sign, is Josh Hamilton. And that's because I feel he fill's multiple needs for us. I've never said go out and get Hamilton AND Grienke at any cost, and/or trade the farm for Butler or Headley. Many like to "assume" or "imply" that i'm on some "spend at all cost's" side of a debate. All i've ever said was I want Hamilton, and no stop gap mid-tier guy's like Cody Ross or Josh Willingham. I'd love for anyone to quote a post of mine, where I said we need to sign Grienke, or give up the farm to get Butler or Headley. That's why I get offensive when people pigeonhole me into a one way or the other type of discussion. And use smug and mocking comment's to make those cases.

(The last two sentence's aren't directed at you. I won't call people out, but they know who they are)

[OrioleMagic79]

Looks like someone is a little to proud of their kindle/twigs/fire metaphor.

Here, let me help...

Buying logs will give you firewood for a day. Growing your own logs (uh, trees ) will give you a firewood for life.

that's true, but we've been growing logs for 14 years and we've only seen a couple thrive...now that they're finally thriving I don't want to wait 14 more years before I get a couple more and enough to build a solid team without putting them to use...

With the guys we have all blossoming now and in the next year or two (Manny, Dylan, Gausman, and hopsfully Schoop) we need to contend NOW...if we wait for more draft picks and guys to develop, we'll have three or four Brian Roberts's on our hands...except maybe a few more wins and relevant seasons...but not likely a WS championship...

**and yes, I'm quite proud - your addition wasn't bad either by the way, even though it WAS a counter-argument...

[Brendan25]

you're right, this is possible, but is it even close to the most likely scenario? I mean, AWFUL?

Let me put it this way...I want to roll the dice while they're in my hands, because if I lose control of the table before I roll them, I'm just as bad off as if I would have rolled them and lost big...

I would trade a World Series victory next year or in 2014 for another 14 years of mediocrity...so that's how I determine my stance on signing JH...he gives me a better shot at that chance, and signing him doesn't even guarantee the dooms day scenarios that all those on the moderate spending side are putting out there...so it's not so grim looking IMO...in fact things are brighter than they have been in a really long time, so I don't want to be complacent and lose that...at least not without trying to keep it...

No you are trading a better shot of winning a championship in 2014 for a very higher chance of being less then mediocre for 3-6 years after that.

[Brendan25]

The only player i've ever mentioned that I want the O's to sign, is Josh Hamilton. And that's because I feel he fill's multiple needs for us. I've never said go out and get Hamilton AND Grienke at any cost, and/or trade the farm for Butler or Headley. Many like to "assume" or "imply" that i'm on some "spend at all cost's" side of a debate. All i've ever said was I want Hamilton, and no stop gap mid-tier guy's like Cody Ross or Josh Willingham. I'd love for anyone to quote a post of mine, where I said we need to sign Grienke, or give up the farm to get Butler or Headley. That's why I get offensive when people pigeonhole me into a one way or the other type of discussion. And use smug and mocking comment's to make those cases.

(The last two sentence's aren't directed at you. I won't call people out, but they know who they are)

I'm not pigeonholing anyone. I've actually been on record as saying that I think my differences with you and Johnny is mostly because of what we believe Hamilton will get. I believe that I think he gets much more then what you guys think he is going to get. I've been on record saying that if we got him for 4/80 or even 4/100 I wouldn't scream mad about that deal. I think he gets more then that though.

[Can_of_corn]

From Cot's, payroll commitments right now.

2013 - 53.57

2014 - 41.68

2015 - 14.95

2016 - 16.33

2017 - 16.33

2018 - 17.33

The bolded is Adam Jones obviously. All by himself.

It is incorrect.