Peter Angelos...Good owner or Bad owner.

[Brendan25]

No disagreement here. He is the owner and is ultimately accountable for the poor results. But I bolded "THE" for a reason. There are numerous reasons why we have been losing for all these years, and while Angelos is one of the main reasons, he is not "the only" reason. Bad baseball people. Playing with the Yanks and Boston who had unlimited payrolls to sign THE best players in the game as well as extend their own players. Bad development of players. Etc etc.

Agreed Dip. He hired those people, so it's ultimately his responsibility. But the people faield at their jobs.

[Dipper9]

I'm increasingly believing you are a relative of Angelos.

I don't call him Uncle Petey for nutthin'.

I've said many times, while I don't think he's a "good" owner, I think he gets blamed for too much. I agree that as the owner he is ultimately "responsible and accountable" but there have been a lot of bad people working for him that have been the real issue. (and yeah, I'm fully aware HE hired them). Plus, my biggest issue is not those who say he's a bad owner, but those who say they "hate" this man. Really? You hate this man who gives to the city of Baltimore, all because he's a bad baseball owner? Its ridiculous to me.

And yes, Angelos represented my Grandfather who died due to asbestos related illness, so while I don't truly think he's a good baseball owner, I DO think he's a good "man." I voted the way I did in the poll just to ruffle some feathers!

[Dipper9]

Come on Soprano...not only would you leave the gun and take the cannoli, but you'd probably spit on him before you left the scene of the crime! :eektf:

[ShaneDawg85]

You want to love PA, go ahead! Opinions are opinions. You can love him or hate him. I choose the later. Most of the posters on this board are always complaining about why didn't he sign this player or that player during FA. To me he's cheap and as long as he owns this team we will always be playing second fiddle to all the other owner who spend and try to better their team buy signing FA players who can help their teams while PA continues to be cheap and put money in HIS OWN pocket.

Clearly people don't love Angelos, based on the poll results at the moment.

[Mayor McCheese]

Oh how quickly people forget.....

The Baltimore Orioles quickly became the laughingstock of Major League Baseball during the offseason because of their repeatedly unsuccessful attempts to hire someone to run their baseball operations. It seemed like the entire league was saying thanks, but no thanks, and don't call here again.

After swinging and missing with at least eight other candidates, reports Sunday said the Orioles have hired Dan Duquette to be the team's president of baseball operations

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/blog/big_league_stew/post/orioles-ridiculous-search-for-gm-luckily-ends-with-dan-duquette?urn=mlb,wp26499

This is a direct relation to Peter Angelos & Co.

[luismatos4prez]

Sometimes I think he means well, but is just totally clueless.

Other times, I think he knows exactly what's going on, and he's el diablo.

Right now, I think he's extremely stubborn, and won't admit that he's been wrong about things or change his ways. I think he has some misguided ideas about the right way to fund the club that he's operating under. Nothing's really changed in the organization other than PA lucked into Buck and Duquette.

[Tony-OH]

I disagree with the bolded. He hired and fired the guys who made the decisions, and they made a ton of very bad decisions. He hired Syd Thrift, he fired Davey, he came up with the two-headed Flanagan/Beattie mess, he set the budgets, he hired the scouting directors. Peter Angelos is responsible for the 14 losing years.

Absolutely. The other thing is enabled a lack of accountability within the franchise. Angelos spies were all over the organization and many were allowed to go straight to the owner with their "concerns." When new GMs would come in, some of these people were off limits to be fired and that in turned caused a lack of accountability throughout the organization. The minor leagues are still run in a shoe-string budget so things like pitching machines and needed training equipment are not bought and the same old run-down equipment is used. anything to save a penny.

Lastly, what kind of owner can't be found while the losing is going on, but as soon as the Orioles win a playioff game, he's down in the lockerroom shaking hands with players, coaches, and even most of the media who looked like school girls as they lined up to shake his hand like the King had arrived? Maybe I was the only one, but I just found it a bit off-putting?

Angelos isn't all bad, and by almost all accounts he has taken a step back from the baseball operations side since MacPhail took over, but by every metric I can think of, Angelos most certainly should be held accountable for the organization going through a 14-year drought.

[Brendan25]

Absolutely. The other thing is enabled a lack of accountability within the franchise. Angelos spies were all over the organization and many were allowed to go straight to the owner with their "concerns." When new GMs would come in, some of these people were off limits to be fired and that in turned caused a lack of accountability throughout the organization. The minor leagues are still run in a shoe-string budget so things like pitching machines and needed training equipment are not bought and the same old run-down equipment is used. anything to save a penny.

Lastly, what kind of owner can't be found while the losing is going on, but as soon as the Orioles win a playioff game, he's down in the lockerroom shaking hands with players, coaches, and even most of the media who looked like school girls as they lined up to shake his hand like the King had arrived? Maybe I was the only one, but I just found it a bit off-putting?

Angelos isn't all bad, and by almost all accounts he has taken a step back from the baseball operations side since MacPhail took over, but by every metric I can think of, Angelos most certainly should be held accountable for the organization going through a 14-year drought.

I agree that he is responsible for it, but he didn't draft the players or coach the team. He has been a lousy owner, but he is not the only person to blame when it comes to why the Orioles sucked for 15 years. He is not the devil like some want to believe. I really think he wants to win.

[TonySoprano]

YES....because most of us agree he is a Bad owner. What he is NOT is the worst owner in sports, or the devil, or THE reason we lost for 14 years. And for you to say you "hate" the man because he is a bad owner, says more about you than I'd care to know.

I've said many times, while I don't think he's a "good" owner, I think he gets blamed for too much. I agree that as the owner he is ultimately "responsible and accountable" but there have been a lot of bad people working for him that have been the real issue. (and yeah, I'm fully aware HE hired them). Plus, my biggest issue is not those who say he's a bad owner, but those who say they "hate" this man. Really? You hate this man who gives to the city of Baltimore, all because he's a bad baseball owner? Its ridiculous to me.

And yes, Angelos represented my Grandfather who died due to asbestos related illness, so while I don't truly think he's a good baseball owner, I DO think he's a good "man." I voted the way I did in the poll just to ruffle some feathers!

Thanks for proving my earlier point. Not only did you say, twice, that you don't think he's a good owner, and even agreed he's a bad owner, you still voted that he was a good owner. I remember your grandfather story, but that's entirely different from Pete the baseball man.

Come on Soprano...not only would you leave the gun and take the cannoli, but you'd probably spit on him before you left the scene of the crime! :eektf:

Actually, I'd have one of my capos get one of his "soldiers" do that. Cannolli works for me, though.

[Dipper9]

Thanks for proving my earlier point. Not only did you say, twice, that you don't think he's a good owner, and even agreed he's a bad owner, you still voted that he was a good owner. I remember your grandfather story, but that's entirely different from Pete the baseball man.

Actually, I'd have one of my capos get one of his "soldiers" do that. Cannolli works for me, though.

I only threw the Grandfather story in to show my point about the people who say they hate him. If someone truly "hates" a man because of his work, then that's crazy to me. Its not like Angelos took the Orioles out of Baltimore.

And while I defend Peter Angelos the man, I don't waste much time defending him as an owner, as he is not a good one. Plus, I said I only voted on the poll to ruffle feathers. If everyone voted YES this would have been a very boring thread!

[Dr. Unk]

Can we have a few more categories below bad? Certainly not the worst but..... Makes me crazy how this once famed franchise went down the flusher under him. I hope we are coming back, after last year.

[Mayor McCheese]

LOL's this was done 21 years ago with the previous owner.

I think Jacobs is a very bad owner, because he wouldn't spend money on anyone. I think it would be a virtual salvation if a new owner bought the team. Hopefully the new owner will have a better cash flow and will spend more money.

I think Eli Jacobs has been a poor owner because he hasn't taken the interest in the team that would be necessary to make it a winner. He hasn't allowed himself to use the financial resources at his command to obtain the ballplayers and build the program and the farm system and beyond in terms of management and personnel to build a winning organization in Baltimore. Instead of continuing to fail, he's bailing out and leaving it on someone else to come in and start over. I think that's a sure sign of a loser.

http://articles.baltimoresun.com/1991-06-14/sports/1991165122_1_eli-jacobs-bad-owner-new-owner

[DrungoHazewood]

I agree that he is responsible for it, but he didn't draft the players or coach the team. He has been a lousy owner, but he is not the only person to blame when it comes to why the Orioles sucked for 15 years. He is not the devil like some want to believe. I really think he wants to win.

It's irrelevant if he wants to win but sets constraints on the organization that essentially preclude it from winning, except in rare circumstances.

[24fps]

He is not as bad an owner as some make him out to be.

He has been better since Andy MacPhail was hired although the way AM was hired unnecessarily sandbagged Mike Flanagan and I still despise PA in that respect.

End of the day I think he's been a pretty bad owner but allowing Duquette to clean up some of the cronyism gives me a little hope.

[DrungoHazewood]

He is not as bad an owner as some make him out to be.

True. He's not Loria, a hired thug of Bud Selig who has intentionally tried to destroy two different MLB franchises and actually succeed in one. All Angelos has done is taken a historically great, popular franchise with massive revenue advantages and squandered it all in 15 years, turning it into a poorly-attended laughingstock. With enough creativity you could construct a case where Angelos is the 28th or even 27th-best owner in MLB.