Matt Wieters to Boras: Keep me in Baltimore

[Can_of_corn]

I just don't see how there could've been any concern after what he did for us from 2004 to 2009 when he signed the contract. I mean he had over 280 doubles and 200 SB for us in that time period. 3 different seasons of at least 50 doubles! He averaged 150+ games a year. OPS of over .800...all of this from a 2B (not many offensively productive 2B) and he was the face of the franchise with Nick Markakis (we had no idea how Adam Jones was going to turn out). It was 4 years @ $10 million a year. He's going to be 35 when his contract is up.

Just looking at it from a 2009 perspective - it's a great signing.

Middle infielders do not age well.

[DrungoHazewood]

I can not believe we have actual Os fans that are against a 5+ year deal for Wieters because of age/risk...

He is a rare talent. You don't see many of these type of players in the game.

Pay that man his money..

Being an O's fan doesn't preclude you from making an objective assessment of risk. It's not that controversial to think a very long, very expensive extension for a workhorse catcher might end up being a drag on the team's performance at some point. We all want a healthy, productive Matt Wieters to be the O's catcher in 2018 or 2020. But there's probably about a 50/50 shot that guy won't exist then.

I'd probably sign him anyway. Sometimes you stick your neck out for good guys.

[DrungoHazewood]

I just don't see how there could've been any concern after what he did for us from 2004 to 2009 when he signed the contract. I mean he had over 280 doubles and 200 SB for us in that time period. 3 different seasons of at least 50 doubles! He averaged 150+ games a year. OPS of over .800...all of this from a 2B (not many offensively productive 2B) and he was the face of the franchise with Nick Markakis (we had no idea how Adam Jones was going to turn out). It was 4 years @ $10 million a year. He's going to be 35 when his contract is up.

Just looking at it from a 2009 perspective - it's a great signing.

I'm not sure you have an objective perspective of how baseball players age. In 2009 Brian Roberts was 31 and worth 2 wins and change. A decent swag at his future would have been 2, 1.5, 1, and 0.5 wins over the next four years. That's five total wins, or about $25M. If you want to start prior to '09, his running three-year average was about 4 wins/season, so you could assume (starting in '10) 3, 2.5, 2, and 1.5 wins, for a total of 9, or maybe $45M.

So... a reasonable extension fair to both parties, not accounting for risk of sudden falloff due to middle infielders aging poorly, would have been in the $25-45M range over four years. His deal was near the top end. Defensible, but arguably player-friendly. The Orioles did not get a hometown discount, they got a deal that would have been fair had he remained healthy and had a predictable aging pattern. Unfortunately he got hurt and fell apart almost immediately.

[SrMeowMeow]

I just don't see how there could've been any concern after what he did for us from 2004 to 2009 when he signed the contract. I mean he had over 280 doubles and 200 SB for us in that time period. 3 different seasons of at least 50 doubles! He averaged 150+ games a year. OPS of over .800...all of this from a 2B (not many offensively productive 2B) and he was the face of the franchise with Nick Markakis (we had no idea how Adam Jones was going to turn out). It was 4 years @ $10 million a year. He's going to be 35 when his contract is up.

Just looking at it from a 2009 perspective - it's a great signing.

Well, there certainly was concern. Also, a lot was made of the whole face of the franchise thing - has that been any kind of factor? His lottery number came up and he's been injured and unproductive. Are we reaping any "face-of-the-franchise" benefits from that contract? Maybe, just maybe, we should throw out any analysis of that kind for the future.

[weams]

Actually there was a pretty strong dissent when Roberts signed, saying it was way too much of a risk for a middle infielder who depended on defense and quickness and health through his mid-30s. I was an advocate of the deal, but there was plenty of disagreement.

But, on average, players resigned by their own teams do out-perform free agents who switch teams. It is a better risk to sign guys you have vetted by watching every day for many years.

I wanted Brian traded to Chicago. But that would not have worked out so well either. But at least we would not have been in jail with his contract.

Ronny Cedeno

Sean Marshall

Sean Gallagher

[Can_of_corn]

I wanted Brian traded to Chicago. But that would not have worked out so well either. But at least we would not have been in jail with his contract.

Ronny Cedeno

Sean Marshall

Sean Gallagher

On the bright side we are up for parole in a month and there is only a year left on the sentence.

[Il BuonO]

Being an O's fan doesn't preclude you from making an objective assessment of risk. It's not that controversial to think a very long, very expensive extension for a workhorse catcher might end up being a drag on the team's performance at some point. We all want a healthy, productive Matt Wieters to be the O's catcher in 2018 or 2020. But there's probably about a 50/50 shot that guy won't exist then.

I'd probably sign him anyway. Sometimes you stick your neck out for good guys.

That's how I feel. If you are looking at it from a purely financial standpoint the length if the contract does come into play. However, the last statement is a good one especially if he has determined in his mind to stay here when being represented by an agent known to get every last cent out of teams for his clients.

[El Gordo]

If Wieters has a good year he will cost a lot to extend and bring back a lot in trade. Depends on how we are doing at the end of the season and what are needs are. In one sense a 4/65M deal with a mutual option might appeal to both.

[NewMarketSean]

Coincidence that this comes out after the O's make the playoffs and the Ravens win the SB, seeing the fans meet the O's at the stadium after Game 5 and then go crazy at the parade? I don't know...

But I do believe that the Ravens and Orioles players are realizing that this is a wonderful city to play in, and we're becoming somewhat of a sports destination.

Jurjjens said that the Orioles were the kind of team he wanted to be a part of, which was nice to hear. I know he may not have had many options, but still...it's nice to see Bmore getting some love from players. Boldin said he'd rather retire than play for another team.

[scottbbfm]

I'd rather have a hometown guy underperform his contract than a free agent. First you are essentially paying him back for over performing during the early years. And honestly that type of guy is just good for the stability of the team and is just more ingrained to the fabric of the community. Not saying a free agent can't contribute to the community but a guy who has been around the city for a while and is well liked is good for business.

[24fps]

I wanted Brian traded to Chicago. But that would not have worked out so well either. But at least we would not have been in jail with his contract.

Ronny Cedeno

Sean Marshall

Sean Gallagher

Let's not forget Matt Murton. I was in favor of that deal as well. (cringe).

[Frobby]

Drungo is the man......must spread rep.

Were the other guys moved off C, or did they have injuries, or just fell out of baseball?

Interesting that Ramon is the most recent. Does this mean we'll have to move Wieters due to his attitude in a few years?

Got him for you because you are right. It was an excellent post.

Someone need to get him for me, too. I knew he'd answer my query, in some shape or form.

Well, 41% is not very good odds, so that has to go into the equation when deciding how much to offer. For now, I'm still not deterrred from trying to do a deal, but I sure wouldn't go beyond 6 years unless there were some provisions that allowed the O's to void if Wieters hadn't met some games caught and AB quotas.

[Frobby]

I just don't see how there could've been any concern after what he did for us from 2004 to 2009 when he signed the contract. I mean he had over 280 doubles and 200 SB for us in that time period. 3 different seasons of at least 50 doubles! He averaged 150+ games a year. OPS of over .800...all of this from a 2B (not many offensively productive 2B) and he was the face of the franchise with Nick Markakis (we had no idea how Adam Jones was going to turn out). It was 4 years @ $10 million a year. He's going to be 35 when his contract is up.

Just looking at it from a 2009 perspective - it's a great signing.

It was borderline, at the time. There was a ton of discussion about the fact that 2B don't age well, have injury risks, and lose range. I remember crawjo had done a study of how much range infielders lose as they age, and there was significant drop-off to be expected. Personally, I was happy about the deal because sometimes you do need to show your oganization can keep its best players. The reasons that deal turned into a disaster have little to do with the concerns anyone had at the time.

[CaptainRedbeard]

I wanted Brian traded to Chicago. But that would not have worked out so well either. But at least we would not have been in jail with his contract.

Ronny Cedeno

Sean Marshall

Sean Gallagher

Sean Marshall turned into a great player and he was easily the least highly regarded of the 4 at the time (counting Murton). Baseball is a funny game.