So how about Brian Roberts today?

[Pickles]

And some of the comments in this thread are a very good reason why there is so much vitriol about Roberts. It's probably the biggest reason.

What comments are those?

[Frobby]

He has terrible arm strength. That hurts the team. Accuracy should be a given for any 2nd baseman.

I think "terrible" is a big overstatement, at least with respect to his play through 2010. I haven't seen enough of BRob in 2011-12 to make a judgment. It's true Roberts did not have a strong arm, but I wouldn't say "terrible." The available stats don't back that up and I never observed it.

[Ruzious]

I think "terrible" is a big overstatement, at least with respect to his play through 2010. I haven't seen enough of BRob in 2011-12 to make a judgment. It's true Roberts did not have a strong arm, but I wouldn't say "terrible." The available stats don't back that up and I never observed it.

I don't think it's an overstatement at all. I've watched him play, and I trust my eyes.

[Ruzious]

Also, I'd like to point out that while some of us are perhaps reading too much into those couple of doubles in the third ST game, we have others reading too much into one throw on a slowly turned double play ball in the third ST game. That DP ball featured a slow start to the turn by Machado, the runner sliding under Roberts, and the batter hustling down the first base line.

Ftr, in my case, I base absolutely nothing on early ST games.

[CA-ORIOLE]

I'll keep that in mind next time we discuss defensive stats.

You do that. It's highly unlikely you'll catch making much about a SSS of defensive stats.

Like I said, relax. It's a long season. We have many months to disgust each other.

<3

Oh, I'm good. From past experience, I'd say some frustration with processing abilites will be more of an issue than disgust though.

[Ruzious]

How much does below average arm strength from your 2B realllllly hurt your team? Poor arm strength from your SS, CF, or C is much more significant. If Roberts hits, he'll easily overcome any detriment his arm is bringing.

Turning double plays.

[CA-ORIOLE]

Turning double plays.

It hurts the range numbers too.

[Il BuonO]

Also, I'd like to point out that while some of us are perhaps reading too much into those couple of doubles in the third ST game, we have others reading too much into one throw on a slowly turned double play ball in the third ST game. That DP ball featured a slow start to the turn by Machado, the runner sliding under Roberts, and the batter hustling down the first base line.

This is a good point. I went back and watched it and Manny doesn't get it out cleanly on the transition to Roberts. You don't think Roberts sees all that as he's going to cover? I'm the last guy that's going to make excuses for him, but I did play the position and you have usually three ways to come across the bag. If the timing is upset on the way there that can change. Throw in the fact he knows he's got a 200 lb. guy coming in hard and the play isn't as easy as some here are making it out to be.

[LookinUp]

Turning double plays.

It's more than that. I agree that his arm is pretty terrible, but my concerns about his defense are much more about his range. If not improved, that would result in him getting to less balls and the weak arm comes into play for anything in the hole which might require him to throw off balance. That's clearly not limited to double plays. It's all about his overall defensive capabilities, on a team that in many ways was carried by its defense last year.

I really hate the idea that we might add a below average defender at 2B. Andino had a ton of issues, but he ended up really solidifying 2B defensively.

That all being said (for the haters of the haters), I too am holding out hope that Roberts' extra gym time has him in the shape of a 30 year old. Crazier things have happened.

[CA-ORIOLE]

This it's s good point. I went back and watched it and Manny doesn't get it out cleanly on the transition to Roberts. You don't think Roberts sees all that as he's going to cover? I'm the last guy that's going to make excuses for him, but I did play the position and you have usually three ways to come across the bag. If the timing is upset on the way there that can change. Throw in the fact he knows he's got a 200 lb. guy coming in hard and the play isn't as easy as some here are making it out to be.

MLBN had Darwin Barney on a few weeks ago. His strategy was to proceed to second base as fast as possible and be in a set position to get the throw from the infielder. Not always practical, I know.

[Pickles]

You do that. It's highly unlikely you'll catch making much about a SSS of defensive stats.

But it isn't about the sample size. It's about the eye test. Roberts was bad last year, not cause of the stats in a SSS, but because you, and others, could discern it.

Fair enough. Hell, I agree.

It's kind of exactly what I say about defensive value.

Oh, I'm good. From past experience, I'd say some frustration with processing abilites will be more of an issue than disgust though.

Don't sell yourself short. Fight through that frustration and you'll comprehend one day.

[CA-ORIOLE]

But it isn't about the sample size. It's about the eye test. Roberts was bad last year, not cause of the stats in a SSS, but because you, and others, could discern it. Fair enough. Hell, I agree. It's kind of exactly what I say about defensive value.

Most players aren't as blatantly horrible as Roberts was last year. Evaluating statistical performance is in fact inherent to the sample size.

Don't sell yourself short. Fight through that frustration and you'll comprehend one day. :

Oh, I'm fighting through it.

[Can_of_corn]

All I'm saying is I'm ok with have the only defensive question marks on this team being 2B and 1B. Especially when those two guys have the chance to help the team a ton offensively.

Nolan is iffy in left and Nick was not good last year in right. Hopefully he will be back to form this season but it isn't a lock.

[El Gordo]

I don't think it's an overstatement at all. I've watched him play, and I trust my eyes.

Oh boy, the old eye argument. Sure your not Oldfan? If Roberts had a terrible arm he would have a poor DP %, In fact he has a well above average DP %. If it's strong enough to complete a high % of DP, it's certainly strong enough to make the other more routine plays at 2B. He does not have a SS arm but that doesn't mean it's terrible. Brooks had below average arm strength for a 3B and that didn't seem to hurt the team when he played.

[Il BuonO]

MLBN had Darwin Barney on a few weeks ago. His strategy was to proceed to second base as fast as possible and be in a set position to get the throw from the infielder. Not always practical, I know.

Roberts may be a guy who benefits from catching a ball in rhythm as he comes across the bag because he can use momentum to make up for lack of arm strength. It appeared to me that he was at the bag and used a play that basically takes your body toward RF, pushing off of 2B as he throws. I was always prepared for a play like what happened the other day. Then again, my arm was better than his.

We may be placing a little too much emphasis on one throw in ST. I'm more concerned with his range up the middle and to his left. As someone else said, positioning can mitigate his range or lack thereof. I don't buy all this talk about his arm being terrible. It isn't great by any stretch, but the hyperbole is flying around quite a bit in this thread.