Weaver Ejected, I mean Buck Ejected

[The Wedge]

I want to know why Buck and the O's didn't officially protest the game. You can legally protest a game over misapplication of the rules. If Buck felt strongly enough to get ejected, why not play the game under protest?

Probably because the obvious counter is that the misapplication of the rules was a result of a judgment call, and you can't protest judgment calls. You could have said that not calling Jeter out in 96 was a misapplication of the fan interference rules, but it was because of a judgement call (and Johnson did protest that one because of the whole "we were told that rail was going to be policed so fans couldn't lean over it" thing, and it was still denied).

I'm really confused why you're belaboring the point here. Yes, you're right in that by reversing the call they "got it right" to what actually happened. But Buck is 100% correct when he said two wrongs don't make a right, either, and that's why a lot of us, myself included, are furious at the officiating for it. It is completely mind boggling that when the initial call results in a dead ball situation that the umpires can reverse it to a live ball. Do you not realize the precedent that might set in the future? Don't say it won't happen. IT JUST DID. It can happen again, and for what situation next time? How will a team get screwed next time because a player reacted to a dead ball call that gets overturned?

No, the "right" thing for the crew to do was to apologetically uphold the dead ball call. How effin' hard is that? Let Farrell argue all he wants, but just tell him "look, you may be right, you may be wrong, but I'm sorry, I called it foul, it became a dead ball, and I just can't reverse a dead ball call to a live one in a situation where now players have to react to the live ball." How hard is that?

And if someone wants to really harp on the "why did Davis run, then?" point, if you are uncertain of anything, you "play through the whistle." Which is what he did, and stopped when the ump called it foul! Which would be the frakking whistle there!

I'm sorry, but I will never ever ever EVER agree with someone saying an umpire is right in reversing a dead ball call that results in the ball becoming live. There are entirely too many negative consequences. Isn't that one of the major reasons why the bigwigs don't want instant replay on any fair/foul calls because there's absolutely no way of telling what could happen if the ball is called foul and IR proves it was fair? SAME EXACT PROBLEM.

[The Wedge]

Ok, I think I've gone far enough down this rabbit hole. I can't get all up in arms about the O's getting screwed on a call that the umps eventually got right because the result of the initially messed up call could have had a 1-in-1000 chance of benefiting the Orioles. If you tried to explain this to a casual fan they'd probably chuckle and say "Didn't Davis strike out? What are you complaining about?"

I'd tell them what I told my wife, who is a casual fan: yes, but the initial call killed the play, robbing Davis the opportunity for his dropped third strike chance to get to first.

Beat your drum all you want, but this is a problem that both screwed the Orioles, highlighted a fundamental umpiring problem of late, and just sets an awful, awful precedent for what kinds of calls can be reversed.

[SeaBird]

I want to know why Buck and the O's didn't officially protest the game. You can legally protest a game over misapplication of the rules. If Buck felt strongly enough to get ejected, why not play the game under protest?

Probably because he didn't feel the call had any impact on the final result.

“He called a dead ball,” Showalter said. “You can't have an out on a dead ball. It's pretty obvious. … I asked them to reconvene again and be fair. The final result is it's just not fair to the Orioles. It didn't [have] any effect on the game though. I don't know. He might have hit the next pitch out of the park. I don't know.”

Read more: http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/orioles/bal-baltimore-orioles-suffer-76-walkoff-loss-to-toronto-blue-jays-20130621,0,7420272.story#ixzz2Wwrpbq3N

[The Wedge]

I doubt anyone will be suspended.

And if they are, we won't know about it. They'll each have some "vacation" or something two months down the line.

But I do wish MLB would come forward and address this issue. Reversing a dead ball call to a live one is a scary precedent those umpires just set.

[Number5]

It didn't and there wasn't so there was no on-field consequence from getting the call right.

Mark is correct. Foul ball call kills the play. It makes no difference if there is an on-field consequence or not. Ball is dead the instant the umpire calls it foul. This is really quite basic and that this crew made a derad ball live after the fact is unbelievable to me. Seriously terrible umpiring.

[ledzepp8]

Ok, I think I've gone far enough down this rabbit hole. I can't get all up in arms about the O's getting screwed on a call that the umps eventually got right because the result of the initially messed up call could have had a 1-in-1000 chance of benefiting the Orioles. If you tried to explain this to a casual fan they'd probably chuckle and say "Didn't Davis strike out? What are you complaining about?"

It's not really about getting up and arms about this particular call. It's about setting a precedent of umps calling the play dead, then changing their minds because they messed up, and then deciding what they think would have been the end result of the play if they hadn't called it dead.

[SeaBird]

And if they are, we won't know about it. They'll each have some "vacation" or something two months down the line.

But I do wish MLB would come forward and address this issue. Reversing a dead ball call to a live one is a scary precedent those umpires just set.

I'll side with CofC and go with undisclosed fine(s) at best.

[pccp82]

this flies in the face of everything i ever learned umpiring little league games. i thought umpires were supposed to have each others backs?

more to the point, baseball was called one way for all of the players/managers lives. this call maybe just invalidated all of that. do you not shrug your shoulders and move on if you dont get a call? do the umpires decide what might happen? where is the line crossed?

slippery slope indeed.

[cmurter]

[El Gordo]

Was there a rules violation, that is the question. I don't disagree that the call was a joke but it is legal, that is the question.

Yes. Once the ball is called foul it's a dead ball. You can't resuscitate a dead ball. Not even if your Angel Hernandez.

[Malike]

Has a catcher ever botched a throw to first on a 3rd strike call? If not, will it ever happen in baseball? If so, does the possibility exist, no matter how small it could happen again?

I have a problem that they didn't have to make a play. No matter how small the chance it gets botched, there is a chance.

[TonySoprano]

[Number5]

Probably because the obvious counter is that the misapplication of the rules was a result of a judgment call, and you can't protest judgment calls. You could have said that not calling Jeter out in 96 was a misapplication of the fan interference rules, but it was because of a judgement call (and Johnson did protest that one because of the whole "we were told that rail was going to be policed so fans couldn't lean over it" thing, and it was still denied).

I'm really confused why you're belaboring the point here. Yes, you're right in that by reversing the call they "got it right" to what actually happened. But Buck is 100% correct when he said two wrongs don't make a right, either, and that's why a lot of us, myself included, are furious at the officiating for it. It is completely mind boggling that when the initial call results in a dead ball situation that the umpires can reverse it to a live ball. Do you not realize the precedent that might set in the future? Don't say it won't happen. IT JUST DID. It can happen again, and for what situation next time? How will a team get screwed next time because a player reacted to a dead ball call that gets overturned?

No, the "right" thing for the crew to do was to apologetically uphold the dead ball call. How effin' hard is that? Let Farrell argue all he wants, but just tell him "look, you may be right, you may be wrong, but I'm sorry, I called it foul, it became a dead ball, and I just can't reverse a dead ball call to a live one in a situation where now players have to react to the live ball." How hard is that?

And if someone wants to really harp on the "why did Davis run, then?" point, if you are uncertain of anything, you "play through the whistle." Which is what he did, and stopped when the ump called it foul! Which would be the frakking whistle there!

I'm sorry, but I will never ever ever EVER agree with someone saying an umpire is right in reversing a dead ball call that results in the ball becoming live. There are entirely too many negative consequences. Isn't that one of the major reasons why the bigwigs don't want instant replay on any fair/foul calls because there's absolutely no way of telling what could happen if the ball is called foul and IR proves it was fair? SAME EXACT PROBLEM.

I agree with most of what you are saying, but disagree with the bolded. He did call foul and kilkled the play. The ball is dead by rule -- that part of it is not judgment. Right or wrong on the judgment call, the ball is dead once called foul. That can be protested, since the crew unbelievable allowed a dead ball to become live. All four umps should be seriously reprimanded. I can't believe that not one of them said to the others during their conference, "Guys, it doesn't matter if Angel got the call wrong. The play is dead once he called it foul. We need to move on."

[LA2]

One thing players playing under Earl worried about is whether the umps would get back at the O's through their subsequent calls. I wonder if that's what happened today, esp. the ball / strike calls vs. Manny and Hardy in the eighth and Bautista getting 5 strikes in the bottom of the inning.

[BillySmith]

Buck caught them in a big screwup, but they're not man enough to take it and fix it. Like a lot judges I know: show them wrong, they'll get you next time.