Matt Wieters WAR Is Officially 0.0

[AJismyhero]

And that is freaking depressing.

[Crazysilver03]

Im told, but havent checked, that Manny Machado's WAR is 4.5..highest in the majors, DESPITE not being a HR hitter. Thats amazing. So theres that.

Highest in AL. Gomez and Kershaw come in at 4.9 (bWAR).

[SteveA]

As far as I am concerned that is an indicator that perhaps the replacement level needs adjusting, at least for catchers. Despite his batting average, does anyone SERIIOUSLY believe that the offensive and defensive value he has given to the team is exactly equal to some average available-for-a-pittance AAAA type catcher that we could find roaming the streets of Scranton or Pawtucket or Portland?

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[Can_of_corn]

And that is freaking depressing.

Go look at his Fangraphs page, they have his WAR at 0.9.

Admittedly his defense has slipped a bit this season but do you really think he is below replacement level like Baseball Reference has him?

[Aglets]

Well it was negative for awhile. He was slumping offensively and defensively early on. So I take it as a positive that he's trending upwards.

[CA-ORIOLE]

Go look at his Fangraphs page, they have his WAR at 0.9.

Admittedly his defense has slipped a bit this season but do you really think he is below replacement level like Baseball Reference has him?

Yeah, something DRS doesn't like this year about his defense. He is giving up WP's and PB's at a much higher rate than he ever has before.

[Section84]

The Blutarsky line . . .

[webbrick2010]

Perhaps not easily, and perhaps not with an exactly eqivalent player

But the O's need to trade him this offseason while they can still get some talent back.

Too me except for his throwing, his defense (PB's pitch framing) has been below average, and as was pointed out on a seperate thread he has OPS's less than Ryan Flaherty since the third week of April.

[weams]

Perhaps not easily, and perhaps not with an exactly eqivalent player

But the O's need to trade him this offseason while they can still get some talent back.

Too me except for his throwing, his defense (PB's pitch framing) has been below average, and as was pointed out on a seperate thread he has OPS's less than Ryan Flaherty since the third week of April.

Well, we did draft a bunch of catchers. His defense is fine though. Any metric that shows otherwise is flawed, or useless.

[DrungoHazewood]

Perhaps not easily, and perhaps not with an exactly eqivalent player

But the O's need to trade him this offseason while they can still get some talent back.

Too me except for his throwing, his defense (PB's pitch framing) has been below average, and as was pointed out on a seperate thread he has OPS's less than Ryan Flaherty since the third week of April.

If they trade him (and that would stun me, honestly) they better have a plan to replace him. And not just some on-paper WAR swap, but also his familiarity with the staff, the fact he's the most durable catcher in baseball, the fact he essentially eliminates the running game. WAR and its underlying framework is valid, but if anyone was going to be underrated it would be someone out of Wieters' mold.

[Can_of_corn]

Perhaps not easily, and perhaps not with an exactly eqivalent player

But the O's need to trade him this offseason while they can still get some talent back.

Too me except for his throwing, his defense (PB's pitch framing) has been below average, and as was pointed out on a seperate thread he has OPS's less than Ryan Flaherty since the third week of April.

Here I thought I was following Pitch Framing more then anyone else on OH and I have no idea what PB's pitch framing is.

Pitch Framing as a metric is no where near developed enough to be of use at this point. The leading voice on the subject went to work for the Astros and what is left is a bunch of folks trying to pick up the pieces.

[FlaO'sFan]

The Blutarsky line . . .

Mister Blutarsky...

[video=youtube;2V3CfD8TPac]

[Three Run Homer]

There is nothing "official" about WAR. Sabermetricians have developed a pretty reliable set of tools for measuring offense about which there is little disagreement. Measuring defense, especially catchers' defense, is still controversial with different methods producing different answers.

There's no doubt that Wieters is having a down year, but the idea that he's a replacement level performer is laughable. The number says more about the inadequacies of measurement than it says about the inadequacies of Matt Wieters.

[DrungoHazewood]

Here I thought I was following Pitch Framing more then anyone else on OH and I have no idea what PB's pitch framing is.

Pitch Framing as a metric is no where near developed enough to be of use at this point. The leading voice on the subject went to work for the Astros and what is left is a bunch of folks trying to pick up the pieces.

There's good evidence that pitch framing accounts for somewhere between plus/minus zero and 50 runs a year. Enough ambiguity that it can mean anything you want.

[Can_of_corn]

There's good evidence that pitch framing accounts for somewhere between plus/minus zero and 50 runs a year. Enough ambiguity that it can mean anything you want.

The best part of the Molina saved 50 runs in 107 games business?

Rays' pitchers allowed a higher OPS against when he was catching.