Wieters hasn't thrown out a base stealer since June 13th (batting avg. 174 during that time)

[calmunderfire]

Jones does not have plate discipline, but he has gotten marginally better throughout his career. I think he's at this point a finished product. He does not seem to make the effort to lay off breaking pitches or try to take walks. I think the more obvious explanation is he can't do it physically. Not a good enough player.

Machado is struggling recently and as always against low breaking pitches. Yes he can hammer cement mixers like the HR off of Kuroda, but he simply cannot hit the slider, but he's trying. He's been taking more pitches. Trying to draw walks, but he hasn't seen the results yet.

[orioleslist]

I've been thinking about the (mostly) negative posting about Jones and Wieters on OH lately, trying to figure out whether that was fair or not; and honestly, while I'm no big fan of either player, I think context has been lost in the recent conversations.

The reason people are coming down so hard on Jones and Wieters is because the expectation level for both of them was unreasonably high--Wieters due to his Minor League stats, Jones due to his progression in his first 2-3 years, and the generally held belief that he would become a smarter hitter.

Well, it turns out that Wieters is never going to be Ivan Rodriguez (in his prime), and Jones will probably never be able to lay off breaking pitches outside of the zone, will see them more and more often as a result, and will turn out to be no more than a slightly above average CF when all is said and done.

Could it have been better? Of course... But think a minute: do you wish we had Teagarden as our regular catcher in place of Wieters, or a slightly below average CF instead of a slightly above average CF if we didn't have Jones?

Yeah, me neither.

What really hurts IMO is the thought that if Wieters and Jones were as good as we *hoped* they were going to be, we'd be World Series contenders. They are who they are though, irrevocably flawed, unable to carry us to the next level, and there's nothing we can do about this.

Maybe a combination of Davis, Machado and other pieces to the puzzle yet to be uncovered will do what Wieters and Jones can't, but as things stand now, we're just not good enough. (And I'm purposefully omitting pitching in this discussion).

So really, the ones to blame are not Jones or Wieters, but just us, hopelessly optimistic fans, all so ready to proclaim we've stuck gold when all we have in our hands is copper.

[SilentJames]

His plate awareness has gotten worse. His OBP is mostly BA driven. And he hasnt been good in the field. Sorry to disagree with you. I'll try not to have my own opinions going forward.

No one said you couldn't have your own opinions dude.

He is a hacker,always has been, will most likely always be. But he also hits for average as well as good power coming out of CF. At this point complaining about Jones' free swinging is kinda like complaining about the immaturity of teenagers.

He is in a slump, it happens. There is little reason to believe he won't snap out of it.

[Jonesy10]

Wieters has been very good until this year. His offensive regression seemingly every year is worrisome.

Jones should be fine. He looked much better today. I think he just gets too excited up there. Case in point was today. His 3 at bats with nobody on were very good. 2 singles and a line out to right. But his AB with a guy on 2nd and no outs, he starts flailing away.

I think he will heat up, but he does need to walk more. I think he has it in him.

The real problem with our offense is if Roberts is our DH.

[vab]

Calling Jones a slightly above average CF'er is like calling Chris Christie slightly overweight. Everybody is acting like the guy used to be patient at the plate and now he's swinging at everything. He has always swung at everything and this year, yes this year, he's on pace for about as many home runs and more RBI than he has ever had. If you don't like Jones blame management for re-signing him, don't blame Jones. He's the same guy he always was and always will be. As for Wieters, it's true he was never going to live up to the crazy expectations but I'm pretty sure he's got some kind of injury that's dropped him to this level. It's the only thing that makes any sense. Guys don't go backwards at the plate like this at 27.

[semicolt]

Jones would be better in the 5 or 6 hole to take some pressure off him. He was doing better at pitch selection during the beginning of the season but has gone back swinging at bad pitches lately.

[El Gordo]

With the way he has been swinging lately I can't imagine he goes to the plate with any kind of plan. If I can tell the pitch selection and sequence the pitcher is going to use to get him out, why can't he? I just don't think he thinks. He just hacks.

[steve4]

Jones' problem appears to be that he is too focused on simply moving the runner at the expense of giving himself up. He is too good a hitter to have such a narrow focus.

[soxhotcorner14]

I've been saying all along, that this team is in desperate need of a big league number 3 hitter in this lineup. Jones is a very nice player, but he's not your number 3 hitter on a playoff caliber baseball team. Please don't misconstrue what I'm saying here. I'm thankful for having Jones on this team, he's a great team guy, great player. I just think his best spot in this order is at number 5.

If the O's can somehow talk to Jay-Z and get Cano down here to play 2B and bat 3rd in the order that would solidify this offense going into the next 5 years. I know that is a pipe dream, but the premise of my post is the same. They need a big league number 3 hitter in their lineup. I think Jones presses at times being in that 3 hole and tries to do more than he has to at bat. Which can be a double edged sword as a hitter. You like that he wants to be the guy, but sometimes having that mentality can harm you more than help you.

[Three Run Homer]

Jones' problem appears to be that he is too focused on simply moving the runner at the expense of giving himself up. He is too good a hitter to have such a narrow focus.

I would have been satisfied if he had moved the runner in the 3rd inning today! Instead he made one attempt at a bunt and then hacked away at pitches out of the zone.

[MachadOboutManny]

Jones' problem appears to be that he is too focused on simply moving the runner at the expense of giving himself up. He is too good a hitter to have such a narrow focus.

sarcasm I hope

[MachadOboutManny]

Adam Jones is an immature baseball player. He took two of the worst swings in mlb history over the last two days. Davis would be leading the league in RBI if he was left to bat third. Buck is good for the guys, but once it comes to decision making with the lineup, pen, rotation...he leaves a lot to be desired imo. The best/second best hitter in baseball batting fifth is ridiculous.

[semicolt]

The O's should make a trade for Utley, no way the Yankees let Cano get away. Utley would be a great 3 hole hitter and move Jones to 5th.

[CA-ORIOLE]

Calling Jones a slightly above average CF'er is like calling Chris Christie slightly overweight. Everybody is acting like the guy used to be patient at the plate and now he's swinging at everything. He has always swung at everything and this year, yes this year, he's on pace for about as many home runs and more RBI than he has ever had. If you don't like Jones blame management for re-signing him, don't blame Jones. He's the same guy he always was and always will be. As for Wieters, it's true he was never going to live up to the crazy expectations but I'm pretty sure he's got some kind of injury that's dropped him to this level. It's the only thing that makes any sense. Guys don't go backwards at the plate like this at 27.

I think he meant above average overall, not defense. He is conservatively that imo.

I didn't really follow the Taylor Teagarden thing other than it seams to be a standard response when Wieters is criticized. (I.e." I guess you complainers pointing out how badly Wieters has been or or not wanting to extend him would be happy with Taylor Teagarden.")

[oriole]

Wieters has been very good until this year. His offensive regression seemingly every year is worrisome.

Jones should be fine. He looked much better today. I think he just gets too excited up there. Case in point was today. His 3 at bats with nobody on were very good. 2 singles and a line out to right. But his AB with a guy on 2nd and no outs, he starts flailing away.

I think he will heat up, but he does need to walk more. I think he has it in him.

The real problem with our offense is if Roberts is our DH.

This got me to look up his splits with RISP and he is hitting for a .822 OPS (I dont think that includes todays game though) which is higher than I thought.

Jones is an important player on this team, he was one of the first players to really step up and let this club evolve into a contending team. He did it on the field and off the field and showed faith in the organization when he signed that deal...I don't know if that means anything to anyone else, but it means something to me. His impatient approach just seems to be magnified when the team is losing. He is a free swinger. He knows it, We know it, and worst of all the opposing pitchers know it. But it is what it is...I'm glad he is on the Orioles.

Wieters on the other hand...the more of I see of him, the less I am impressed. I'd prefer him behind the plate rather than most catchers in the league but I still expected more of his bat...he doesn't need to light the world on fire but would an OBP of .300+ be too much to ask? Or an OPS over .700 at that?