Joey Votto Critical of Davis Saying the HR Record Is 61

[El Gordo]

It has been indicated by some former players that it may have been a hundred per season that did not use any substance now banned by MLB.

So in other words, if I understand you correctly Donald, and I seldom do, some players have suggested as many as 650 player were using PED's in a single season? Victor Conte has estimated that as many as 50% are still doing them.

[russ snyder]

This is the problem. Didn't Colon test positive last year? And now we are in awe of what he is doing this year? UM.. Who's to say he's still not using?

Melky tests positive and gets a huge contract (ok maybe more, if he hadn't). But what does that teach anyone? If you get caught, you'll lose some money but hey, you'll still make money so keep on keeping on?

If feel bad for the guys that are doing it the right way. That want their sport cleaned up. That don't want steroids to be how people perceive the MLB.

Under the current CBA, both Colon and Cabrera served the necessary suspensions. I think most of the players who are clamoring for a "cleaner" game are basically performing lip service. Most players are not going to ask the Union to allow stiffer penalties for PED use among it's members. It's counter productive to what they negotiated. I think that it's too late for the MLB to be perceived in any other way by a lot of fans and observers. After all, MLB pretty much allowed the culture to flourish for a very long time.

[Riggodrill44]

Has he even advocated taking away their numbers? Has he advocated striking them from the books? I'm under the impression he has only said he recognizes 61 as the true record.

If he is saying 61 is the true record, what was

the plan for tainted numbers?

[Riggodrill44]

How do you know it was a few? Pretty much of the majority of players between 1970 and 2004 were on PED's at some time or the other, IMO. Besides who is paying anything? All the asterisk is doing is noting that the record was set during a period when PED use was prevalent and there was no testing. That's the truth. It's not invalidating the record. A list of the most single season HR leaders would read like this:

Bonds 73 *

McGwire 70 *

Sosa 66 *

Sosa 63 *

Maris 61

Ruth 60

What about Aaron? His numbers legit?

[weams]

If he is saying 61 is the true record, what was

the plan for tainted numbers?

Had no plan. Was not in charge. Told us what number he thinks is the real record.

[El Gordo]

If he is saying 61 is the true record, what was

the plan for tainted numbers?

If I want to recognize 61 as the true record that's my business. I am not responsible for how baseball records are kept. I'm sure Davis was saying that in the same way I am. He recognizes Maris, period, He hasn't made any suggestions about what to do with Bond and company, nor should he have to.

[weams]

What about Aaron? His numbers legit?

As legit as anyone who played at that stadium.

[BohKnowsBmore]

If he is saying 61 is the true record, what was

the plan for tainted numbers?

Why does there have to be a plan? He said what his own personal opinion on the subject. If I think chocolate ice cream is the only ice cream worth buying, that doesn't mean I have a plan for the other flavors in the store. Not saying others can't enjoy them either.

[El Gordo]

What about Aaron? His numbers legit?

The brunt of his career was played prior to 1970 so of course they are. I am arbitrarily setting the beginning of the steroid era at 1970. Of course there were probably a few players using earlier than that. But in general PED's followed weight training into baseball, and that happened pretty much around 1970.

[Il BuonO]

Good point. I think Bonds is sort of in that group, as all the reports had him clean until he got angry about McGwire and Sosa stealing all the attention when Bonds was the much better player. My problem is with folks who vilify all those guys and act as though everyone who came before them would never do anything to gain an advantage. Obviously, the sport is better off without PED, but if like to get rid of the double standard.

You're funny. My OP in this thread was a response to Omacculate and I stated the ends shouldn't justify the means in baseball regarding steroid use. In none of my posts did I "vilify" anyone specifically, but I would say that those who have tested whether it had been made public or not are the ones whom I talked about breaking the rules of baseball. If players who came before those rules were established used things that gave them an unfair advantage and they profited because if it then so be it. Gaylord Perry or some guy who took greenies is no better in my eyes, but I don't make the rules.

Tony's response to you was in response to your post about me being on my 'high horse'. Go back and read the original post. You don't have to agree with it, but nowhere am I making the comparison between players who broke rules established by MLB and those who may have gamed the system.

That wasn't even the tone of my post. If you wanted to make that point go ahead.

[waroriole]

As legit as anyone who played at that stadium.

Wasn't he taking greenies?

[byrdz]

Seems Votto thinks Davis has an ulterior motive for claiming that Maris owns the season HR record at 61 in an article by Jeff Passan of Yahoo Sports in which Votto said:

"If Chris feels like 61 is the home run record, maybe he?s just selfishly pegging that number as the home run record so if he passes it he can wear a crown or something like that. There would be a lot of money in that."

Even Davis' teammate Adam Jones feels the title is Bonds' regardless of the PED association. Passan said of 15 major leaguers who were asked is the record 61 or 73, only one replied with 61.

So much for what the fans believe is the real record. The guys that play the game say the number is 73 and Bonds holds it.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/chris-davis-is-chasing-the-single-season-home-run-record--but-is-it-61-or-73--024447378.html

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[The Wedge]

The funny thing to me about this whole thing is this: I really like the movie 61*. And the way Maris is represented, his almost naive manner of answering questions to the media...well, Davis reminds me of that. Now, it was a wholly different circumstance (being a Yankee, trying to break a Yankee legend's record, competing with another beloved Yankee favorite to do so, in a town with a bunch of newspapers all competing for good stories so they jumped all over every little thing Maris said), but just the straight backed and plainly spoken way they both are answering questions leveled at them about the home run record are very parallel.

[SeaBird]

Melky tests positive and gets a huge contract (ok maybe more, if he hadn't).

He signed 2 years at $8M per with Toronto. That is not huge. He was looking at a $100M contract as a FA and conservative estimates showed he probably missed out on at least $70M or more because of his positive test.

[lobo]

I've been saying 61 is the record for years now. Not everyone who has a controversial opinion is selfish and greedy.

I think Votto is a bit jealous of the attention Davis is getting. Regardless, he just made my dislike list.

Ditto.