Samardzija for Wieters? Roch dreaming of Samardzija throwing to Saltalamacchia for Orioles

[Pickles]

Nobody has said they would trade Bundy or Gausman for Samardzija.

I'd suggest you read this thread closer.

Some have suggested trading BOTH for him.

[Roll Tide]

Sure, love to have him. Not for only 2 years in exchange for Bundy or Gausman, however. My posts are addressing the Cubs' desire to get back top pitching prospedts for Samardzija. If another type of deal can happen that doesn't cost us a Bundy or Gausman, great.

You trade for him and try to add three years per the PA three year rule.

[Number5]

I'm not the biggest DIPS guy in the world but they are better indicators of future performance than ERA.

I knew you (or someone) were going to bring up Arrieta. The analysis is very poor. Arrieta hasn't accomplished anything near what Samardzija has. Chances are DD is looking at Samardzija because of some of the things I and others have pointed out. Just the opposite of your observation here (imo).

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Never called him an ACE. Maybe the Cubs have unrealistic expectations here. I think you guys have some unrealistic expectations about what Wieters is going to yield us back in a trade.

This is poor/weak comparative analysis based on the actual players performance and trends.

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Which is exactly what I said.

Not sure why the Cubs would even want Wieters myself. They have a good catcher already and he's cheap. Maybe they think Wieters has more upside.

Please point me to where I have expressed what we should expect anything for Wieters. You can't. I have stated, quite clearly that the Orioles cannot expect to receive trade value for Wieters based on his scouting reports and projections when his actual MLB game results have not lived up to those projections. I see Wieters and Samardzija as very similar in that regard, as well as their contract situations. My point is, and has remained, that the same goes for Samardzija, and any expectation of his netting the trade value of an ace is unlikely to happen, IMO.

[CA-ORIOLE]

I think we're talking at cross purposes here man.

Myself, and Number5, took objection to the idea that we should trade Wieters, Gausman, and/or Bundy for Samardzija. Or those that called him an "ace" or "damn near an ace."

If you don't feel that way, why exactly are defending that point of view?

This turned into a discussion about Samardzija's value/peripherals/upside with Number 5 (and some others) versus his ERA/performance etc. That discussion doesn't imply I want to trade Bundy/Gausman for him. I made it clear that I would consider lesser pitchers like ERrod and Britton in a deal. I don't think anyone here (except for the Cubs guy) has actually indicated they would deal Bundy or Gausman for Samardzija.

[Dark Helmet]

Samardjiza is the new Headley. Love is in the air....What happens when Toronto gets him?

I think he will have atleast two double-didget strikeout games against the Orioles. If Samardzija was an Oriole, folks would be demanding two or three top prospects for him.

[CA-ORIOLE]

Please point me to where I have expressed what we should expect anything for Wieters. You can't. I have stated, quite clearly that the Orioles cannot expect to receive trade value for Wieters based on his scouting reports and projections when his actual MLB game results have not lived up to those projections. I see Wieters and Samardzija as very similar in that regard, as well as their contract situations. My point is, and has remained, that the same goes for Samardzija, and any expectation of his netting the trade value of an ace is unlikely to happen, IMO.

Fine. Then this is a difference in player valuation in your case. Again, I am not evaluating his trade value as an ACE. Ultimately we'll see what the Cubs get for him if they are seriously shopping him.

[Dark Helmet]

Wonder if the Cubs would be interested in Bud Norris in a Samardzija deal? He's pitched in the NL central with success. He probably won't cost as much to extend as Samardzija.

[Number5]

This turned into a discussion about Samardzija's value/peripherals/upside with Number 5 (and some others) versus his ERA/performance etc. That discussion doesn't imply I want to trade Bundy/Gausman for him. I made it clear that I would consider lesser pitchers like ERrod and Britton in a deal. I don't think anyone here (except for the Cubs guy) has actually indicated they would deal Bundy or Gausman for Samardzija.

No.

You responded to my post where I made it very clear that I would not trade Bundy or Gausman for Samardzija. All of my supporting statistics that were cited were solely for that purpose and to that end. I was showing that Samardzija has clearly not achieved ace status and to trade a Bundy or Gausman for only 2 years of a pitcher, he had better be an ace, or at least a near ace, by actual performance achievement. Samardzija does not meet that qualification. I have said all along that a more reasonable trade is something worth considering, but the Cubs have given every indication that their only interest was for top pitching prospects.

By aruing my points, you were arguing that we should trade Bundy or Gausman for him, since all of more points were made in that regard. I never, not once, said that Samardzija is worthless and we should have no interest in him regardless of who we have to give back. My issue was the consideration of Bundy/Gausman.

[CA-ORIOLE]

No.

You responded to my post where I made it very clear that I would not trade Bundy or Gausman for Samardzija. All of my supporting statistics that were cited were solely for that purpose and to that end. I was showing that Samardzija has clearly not achieved ace status and to trade a Bundy or Gausman for only 2 years of a pitcher, he had better be an ace, or at least a near ace, by actual performance achievement. Samardzija does not meet that qualification. I have said all along that a more reasonable trade is something worth considering, but the Cubs have given every indication that their only interest was for top pitching prospects.

By arguing my points, you were arguing that we should trade Bundy or Gausman for him, since all of more points were made in that regard. I never, not once, said that Samardzija is worthless and we should have no interest in him regardless of who we have to give back. My issue was the consideration of Bundy/Gausman.

LOL. Ok, let me get this straight. By arguing your points criticizing Samardzija as not being very good (basically attacking his ERA, his track record, his upside, his spllts as a reliever, ignoring his peripherals) and you comparing him to guys like Norris and Feldman (not to mention your latter comparisons of his upside to Arrieta/Pie etc), I have somehow defaulted into a position of saying we have to trade Bundy/Gaussman for him?

No one on the board has indicated they would trade Bundy/Gaussman for Samardzija and there has still managed to be a discussion about the value of Wieters and Samardzija.

[Dark Helmet]

I doubt the Cubs would even want Bundy. Coming off TJ, he's probably atleast two years away from even being considered a major league option. And that's IF he pitches well after the surgery and doesn't hit any snags. Not to mention the years of inning limits that will follow. Your probably looking at four years before he'd be allowed to touch 200 innings. And again, that's if he's effective. A lot of the shine is gone from Bundy right now. I'm not saying he's never going to be great. But looking from the outside in, would we deal Tillman for a guy coming off TJ surgery? Other GMs see Bundy as damaged goods until he proves otherwise.

[Can_of_corn]

I doubt the Cubs would even want Bundy. Coming off TJ, he's probably atleast two years away from even being considered a major league option. And that's IF he pitches well after the surgery and doesn't hit any snags. Not to mention the years of inning limits that will follow. Your probably looking at four years before he'd be allowed to touch 200 innings. And again, that's if he's effective. A lot of the shine is gone from Bundy right now. I'm not saying he's never going to be great. But looking from the outside in, would we deal Tillman for a guy coming off TJ surgery? Other GMs see Bundy as damaged goods until he proves otherwise.

I think all of the above is complete nonsense.

[CA-ORIOLE]

I think all of the above is complete nonsense.

Yeah, TJ surgery isn't that big of a deal anymore.

[Mondo Trasho]

I think a lot of GMs overvalue pitchers. So a lot of GMs probably think Bundy is still a great prospect. Personally, I don't think he or Gausman become anything at the major league level. I'll be glad to be wrong, but I don't think we do pitchers very well.

[Dark Helmet]

I think all of the above is complete nonsense.

Good for you. But if you think other GMs will trade their best players in a deal that Dylan Bundy is the main piece, then I'd think that would be nonsense as well.

[weams]

"Again, I can read the ERA line. Thanks. I have not called Samardzija and ACE. If you think that Wieters is going to yield an ACE, I don't want to be the one to interrupt your dream."

You keep referring to Wieters for Samardzija. What makes you think that is being considered? I thought both teams were past that weeks ago. The Cubs have made it known that they are seeking top pitching prospects. Why would they trade a SP for a C when they have a C and need pitching? Why would either team trade a guy that they don't think they can extend prior to free agency in 2 years for another guy in the exact same contract situation, especially when such a trade would create larger lineup holes for both teams than they presently face? Any chance at such a deal screams that a package addressing the other lineup holes needs to be addressed. It is difficult, to say the least, to see any way such a fit can be found between these 2 teams, unless both teams first make other acquisitions.

I have been addressing the Cubs' desire for top pitching prospects, and have made my views against any consideration of trading Bundy or Gausman for Samardzija.

I haven't seen where anyone expects the Orioles to receive an ace in trade for Wieters.

I believe Wieters is more than enough. For Samardzija.