Samardzija for Wieters? Roch dreaming of Samardzija throwing to Saltalamacchia for Orioles

[Number5]

LOL. Ok, let me get this straight. By arguing your points criticizing Samardzija as not being very good (basically attacking his ERA, his track record, his upside, his spllts as a reliever) and you comparing him to guys like Norris and Feldman, I have somehow defaulted into a position of saying we have to trade Bundy/Gaussman for him?

I certainly never said that Damardzija is not very good. That is simply false.

As I have already clearly told you, more than once, my comparisons with Feldman, Burnett, and Arroyo were in regards to the Oriole's choices of either trading Bundy/Gausman for Samardzija or simply signing Feldman, Burnett, or Arroyo. Given the relative similarities between Damardzija's MLB results and those 3, it seems smarter to me - by a wide margin - to keep Bundy and Gausman and sign a Feldman/Arroyo/Burnett. I made it very clear that I am not saying Feldman et al are of equal value to Samardzija, however Feldman et al PLUS Bundy/Gausman are worth far more than Samardzija in my view.

I think maybe you have been so quick to jump on individual data points being made that you may have missed the context in which they were being made. Again, everything I have posted in this discussion has been regarding the idea of trading Bundy/Gausman for Samardzija. My saying that Samardzija's body of work statistically does not merit that type of trade value does not mean that I consider him to be without value.

I never mentioned Norris. Norris is not relevant to the discussion, as he is already an Oriole and is not a consideration for a free agent signing.

[Dark Helmet]

Yeah, TJ surgery isn't that big of a deal anymore.

Not saying it is. But it has set his development back. How many pitchers have had multiple TJ surgeries? Its happened. I'm sure those odds are nonsense though to some posters.

[CA-ORIOLE]

I believe Wieters is more than enough. For Samardzija.

Yeah, I think it's fair. Not sure why the Cubs would want him even up and probably why we're getting into more and more payers with Castillo coming our way. Castillo may or may not be as good as Wieters, but the value sure seems to be there.

[Can_of_corn]

Good for you. But if you think other GMs will trade their best players in a deal that Dylan Bundy is the main piece, then I'd think that would be nonsense as well.

You didn't say that, you said a lot of nonsense. Stuff like "I doubt the Cubs would even want Bundy." I am reasonably sure that every team in MLB would be thrilled to have Bundy in their organization.

[CA-ORIOLE]

Not saying it is. But it has set his development back. How many pitchers have had multiple TJ surgeries? Its happened. I'm sure those odds are nonsense though to some posters.

You never know with surgery and pitchers arms and development is an issue, but I think he may be a back by the end of the 2014 and full up for 2015. I think that's what I read.

[Can_of_corn]

Not saying it is. But it has set his development back. How many pitchers have had multiple TJ surgeries? Its happened. I'm sure those odds are nonsense though to some posters.

Brian Wilson has.

He sure looked like crap at the end of the season.

[Dark Helmet]

You never know with surgery and pitchers arms and development is an issue, but I think he may be a back by the end of the 2014 and full up for 2015. I think that's what I read.

I hope so. But you have to think he will be on innings limits. So it could very well be 4 years before he can be a 200 pitcher.

[Dark Helmet]

Brian Wilson has.

He sure looked like crap at the end of the season.

Then by that example, the Orioles have a heck of a BP arm in Bundy.

[Can_of_corn]

Then by that example, the Orioles have a heck of a BP arm in Bundy.

He was a bullpen arm before the surgery.

So once again, nonsense.

[Dark Helmet]

Brian Wilson has.

He sure looked like crap at the end of the season.

And Brian Wilson is also an established pitcher. I think the point your missing, is that I'm not saying the TJ surgery alone is the issue. Its the fact Bundy already clearly needed more development in the minors. The surgery plus that fact, has set his development back and has delayed his timetable to pitch in the majors. He has yet to throw a post surgery pitch in live game action. No one knows how effective he will be. Doctors can give opinions, but until he throws a pitch that's all it is. He might be better than ever. But to call the idea that he might not be "nonsense" is being overly optimistic. Any GM would love Bundy. But as the second or third piece. Not the main piece. Atleast right now.

[Dark Helmet]

He was a bullpen arm before the surgery.

So once again, nonsense.

That's odd. I could have sworn Bundy was slated to be a starter. Guess you know more than the Orioles.

[Can_of_corn]

That's odd. I could have sworn Bundy was slated to be a starter. Guess you know more than the Orioles.

Yah to you for trying to be cute and purposely misinterpreting my statement!

That is a sure fire way to raise the level of discussion.

Brian Wilson was a bullpen arm before his surgery so it isn't surprising that he is still a bullpen arm after his surgery.

You wanted an example of someone who has had multiple TJ surgeries and Wilson is the most recent example.

[Dark Helmet]

You didn't say that, you said a lot of nonsense. Stuff like "I doubt the Cubs would even want Bundy." I am reasonably sure that every team in MLB would be thrilled to have Bundy in their organization.

You are right. I meant as the main piece. You got me there CoC

[Dark Helmet]

Yah to you for trying to be cute and purposely misinterpreting my statement!

That is a sure fire way to raise the level of discussion.

Brian Wilson was a bullpen arm before his surgery so it isn't surprising that he is still a bullpen arm after his surgery.

You wanted an example of someone who has had multiple TH surgeries and Wilson is the most recent example.

I hope Bundy has many 20 win seasons and a Cy Young or two before he becomes a Yankee

[Can_of_corn]

You are right. I meant as the main piece. You got me there CoC

Oh you want to go line by line?

I doubt the Cubs would even want Bundy.- I am sure every team in baseball would want to have Bundy in the org.

Coming off TJ, he's probably atleast two years away from even being considered a major league option.-TJ recovery is about a year and highly dependent on the rehabbing player's work ethic. Bundy sets the standard for work ethic and early reports are they have had to slow him down as he has hit every milepost early. Considering that the O's used him out of the pen in 2012 I see no reason why he couldn't be an option in 2015. Two years from Dec 2013 is 2015 so you evidently do not think he will be useful until the 2016 season.

And that's IF he pitches well after the surgery and doesn't hit any snags. So far ahead of schedule

Not to mention the years of inning limits that will follow. Your probably looking at four years before he'd be allowed to touch 200 innings. Because 170 quality innings is a problem. Four season would be the mark if a team felt a need to keep him at 30 inning increase a season, that doesn't seem likely.

And again, that's if he's effective. A lot of the shine is gone from Bundy right now. There are gobs and gobs of shine left.

I'm not saying he's never going to be great. But looking from the outside in, would we deal Tillman for a guy coming off TJ surgery?If I wasn't a contender and Tillman was two years away from FA and seemed unlikely to extend I would most certainly be interested in Bundy.

Other GMs see Bundy as damaged goods until he proves otherwise. GM's get scared off by Labrums not by TJ surgery. I am sure they would all try and buy low.