Is Chris Davis going to hit in the 5 hole regardless the rest of the season? Why?

[MurphDogg]

Davis is currently 24th in fWAR out of 29 first basemen in MLB with at least 250 PAs. The only players he's ahead of are Garrett Jones, Ryan Howard, Eric Hosmer, Justin Smoak, and Nick Swisher. He's just behind Ike Davis on the list.

And he is 17th out of 29 in rWAR. But please, pick whichever stats disagree with me.

[MrOrange82]

And he is 17th out of 29 in rWAR. But please, pick whichever stats disagree with me.

rWAR uses TZ to attach value to defense, while fWAR uses UZR. But please, pick the older, more outdated metric to support your tenuous point that Davis isn't as bad as he clearly is.

[MurphDogg]

rWAR uses TZ to attach value to defense, while fWAR uses UZR. But please, pick the older, more outdated metric to support your tenuous point that Davis isn't as bad as he clearly is.

My overarching point is not that Chris Davis isn't playing poorly, it is that we shouldn't be giving him wedgies on the street and egging his house because he is underperforming. Does anybody think we should trade for a first baseman? As for the difference between fWAR and rWAR, I was unaware that one was considered vastly superior than the other. If it is then I learned something today and will switch to fWAR in the future.

Incidentally, a cursory glance at Davis's BR and Fangraphs pages show that there is as much disagreement between his offensive contributions as to WAR as there is to his defensive contributions. Davis's rWAR is not propped up by a ridiculous dWAR. Thoughts?

[MrOrange82]

My overarching point is not that Chris Davis isn't playing poorly, it is that we shouldn't be giving him wedgies on the street and egging his house because he is underperforming. Does anybody think we should trade for a first baseman? As for the difference between fWAR and rWAR, I was unaware that one was considered vastly superior than the other. If it is then I learned something today and will switch to fWAR in the future.

I've been hoping for a Davis turnaround for as long as it's been clear that a turnaround's been necessary. Davis is an easy guy to cheer for. But he's also earning any/all negative comments leveled at him, IMO.

And he just struck out again. ----.

[MurphDogg]

I've been hoping for a Davis turnaround for as long as it's been clear that a turnaround's been necessary. Davis is an easy guy to cheer for. But he's also earning any/all negative comments leveled at him, IMO.

And he just struck out again. ----.

I wasn't attempting to argue that he hasn't earned negative comments, my question was basically, "to what end?" The issue of whether he is merely a slightly below average first baseman or a way below average first baseman isn't really relevant when we saw the last two years that he could be above average to elite.

[MrOrange82]

I wasn't attempting to argue that he hasn't earned negative comments, my question was basically, "to what end?" The issue of whether he is merely a slightly below average first baseman or a way below average first baseman isn't really relevant when we saw the last two years that he could be above average to elite.

I'm not sure what the end is, really. Right now, he looks like someone who should be competing with Walker for a job next year, which would have been inconceivable to me last year. Of course he doesn't get replaced this season, though I'd still like to see him benched against, at least, lefties in favor of Pearce (so as to get Delmon in the line up more often).

[MurphDogg]

I'm not sure what the end is, really. Right now, he looks like someone who should be competing with Walker for a job next year, which would have been inconceivable to me last year. Of course he doesn't get replaced this season, though I'd still like to see him benched against, at least, lefties in favor of Pearce (so as to get Delmon in the line up more often).

Not sure if you caught my earlier edited post, but the difference between Davis's rWAR and his fWAR looks to be based more on the difference in offense measurements between Fangraphs and BR vs. defensive measurements. Why is that?

[Russsnyder]

The eye test shows that Davis is really struggling against power pitchers. Even Mike Bordick (who is never critical) the other day on 105.7 said he is "swinging for the fences, and needs to try to make contact." He said he has talked to Davis about cutting down his swing. He implied that Davis has not been receptive to his suggestions. We saw today that teams are going to pitch around Cruz in order to get to Davis. Who would have thought that would happen this time last year.

[Norfolk orioles]

The eye test shows that Davis is really struggling against power pitchers. Even Mike Bordick (who is never critical) the other day on 105.7 said he is "swinging for the fences, and needs to try to make contact." He said he has talked to Davis about cutting down his swing. He implied that Davis has not been receptive to his suggestions. We saw today that teams are going to pitch around Cruz in order to get to Davis. Who would have thought that would happen this time last year.

Teams are pitching around Cruz, if not intentionally, they are being extremely careful with him. His production has also plummeted since this has happened.

Teams no longer consider Davis a threat and are making that clear not just with how they pitch him, but with how they pitch to Nelson as well.

It's past time Davis was moved down in the lineup, lefty right lineups be damned.

There are a multitude of options including benching Davis against tough lefties, dh'ing young and have him hitting 5th with Cruz in left or simply just moving machado up to the 5 hole and dropping Davis down to 7.

But the time for action has absolutely arrived. Davis needs a wake up call. It's on buck to man up now.

[xmichaelx]

Who would we put in the 5 hole if Davis goes down to 7? Hardy? Doubtful. I think Davis is the best option, like it or not.

[Satyr3206]

Davis needs to be sat for a day or two. He missed curves and fastballs right down the pipe today. If he fouls them off that's one thing but he's whiffing at all of them.

[Norfolk orioles]

Who would we put in the 5 hole if Davis goes down to 7? Hardy? Doubtful. I think Davis is the best option, like it or not.

No, he's not. Literally everyone on the team is making better contact with the ball right now than Davis is.

Machado is a perfect option. But I'd take hardy or young over Davis right now.

Trading for a lefty power bat should be dan duquette's number one priority right now though. If young isn't going to play much, and Pearce is going to be a regular, get us a real lefty bat.

[CA-ORIOLE]

rWAR uses TZ to attach value to defense, while fWAR uses UZR. But please, pick the older, more outdated metric to support your tenuous point that Davis isn't as bad as he clearly is.

This isn't true. rWAR uses DRS (i.e The Fielding Bible) for defense and has for many years now (at least 5-6). DRS is (arguably) better than UZR. It is certainly more detailed and comprehensive in it's approach than UZR.

[CA-ORIOLE]

Not sure if you caught my earlier edited post, but the difference between Davis's rWAR and his fWAR looks to be based more on the difference in offense measurements between Fangraphs and BR vs. defensive measurements. Why is that?

Looks like the difference between fielding and base running is about 7-8 runs better on the rWAR side. About 6.5 runs better on defense.

[CA-ORIOLE]

Teams are pitching around Cruz, if not intentionally, they are being extremely careful with him. His production has also plummeted since this has happened.

Teams no longer consider Davis a threat and are making that clear not just with how they pitch him, but with how they pitch to Nelson as well.

Then Cruz should be taking a lot more walks than he has and not sacraficing much (if anything) from his production.