Jump to content

We're going to walk this guy the next guy is going to hit into a double play and we're gonna go home

weams

By weams
in Orioles Talk

Recommended Posts

  • Replies 80
  • Created
  • Last Reply
waroriole Hangout Grand Counsel

waroriole

Posted
Posted
With what the Tigers were sending up there I dispute it was a poor decision. I ordinarily don't like it, but I did today.

Exactly. Add in the sinkerballer on the mound and it was definitely the right call. As Dan said, Buck was playing to win right there.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
MurphDogg Hangout Grand Counsel

MurphDogg

Posted
Posted
With what the Tigers were sending up there I dispute it was a poor decision. I ordinarily don't like it, but I did today.

I'm just saying that it isn't dispositive. It is a classic example of an appeal to authority logical fallacy. The decision must stand on its own, the supposed wisdom of the person making it should have no bearing on whether the decision was correct.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
chriscarter926 Newbie

chriscarter926

Posted
Posted
I'm just saying that it isn't dispositive. It is a classic example of an appeal to authority logical fallacy. The decision must stand on its own, the supposed wisdom of the person making it should have no bearing on whether the decision was correct.

I think I agree but I got lost in all those words.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Beast AA

Beast

Posted
Posted
I'm just saying that it isn't dispositive. It is a classic example of an appeal to authority logical fallacy. The decision must stand on its own, the supposed wisdom of the person making it should have no bearing on whether the decision was correct.

Sorry, but what a bunch of nonsense. You're managing people, not a philosophical debate. It was Buck's way of telling Zach that he had complete confidence in getting whoever was going to hit next for the Tigers to hit a ground ball, with a fairly high likelihood of a double play. Zach rewarded that confidence. That's precisely what's been going on with this team all season.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Three Run Homer Hangout Veteran Council

Three Run Homer

Posted
Posted
With what the Tigers were sending up there I dispute it was a poor decision. I ordinarily don't like it, but I did today.

This is the key. It was the right decision not so much because it set up the DP, but because Castellanos was so much more of a threat than the guys available to hit after him. Buck knew that the Tigers' bench and bottom of the order were terrible, and he exploited that weakness without mercy.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
coe76 Major Leaguer Cup of Coffee

coe76

Posted
Posted

Been a high school coach for 15 years. If I had a pitcher who threw as many ground balls as Zach, I would do exactly what Buck did. Made sense to me when he did it, still does even if it had backfired. With Zach on the mound Buck was basically playing with house money.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
MurphDogg Hangout Grand Counsel

MurphDogg

Posted
Posted
Sorry, but what a bunch of nonsense. You're managing people, not a philosophical debate. It was Buck's way of telling Zach that he had complete confidence in getting whoever was going to hit next for the Tigers to hit a ground ball, with a fairly high likelihood of a double play. Zach rewarded that confidence. That's precisely what's been going on with this team all season.

Ok. Why didn't he have confidence that Zach would get the first guy to ground out too? I don't even necessarily disagree with the decision. I disagree with the argument that Buck made the decision and Buck is a good manager therefore it must have been the right decision.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Prayin4Reign Major Leaguer Cup of Coffee

Prayin4Reign

Posted
Posted
People that are highly paid can still make poor decisions. And those decisions can still sometimes pan out. Look at Ned Yost.

It's hard to calculate the value of a manager. But it seems extremely safe to say that we are where we are because of Buck and Dan's leadership. How many decisions has Buck had to make over the course of the season? Has he been right on every one? He'd be the first to tell you no. Sometimes in life you make the right decision and it can still backfire on you. But you still trust your instincts and experience, those are the things that have brought you success along the way.

I don't want anyone other than Buck making managerial decisions for this team. That includes all of the experts in residence here.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
weams Hangout Grand Counsel

weams

Posted
  • Author
Posted
Then again, this is the same manager who once intentionally walked Barry Bonds with the bases loaded and lived to tell about it.

“Buck has been doing this a long time,” Tigers Manager Brad Ausmus said of the decision. “I don’t think he could do anything that would shock me.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/06/sports/baseball/baltimore-orioles-detroit-tigers-buck-showalter.html?_r=0' rel="external nofollow">

New York Times

“We beat these guys during the season,” said Tigers outfielder Torii Hunter, who also said he was considering retiring. “But in the postseason they were a totally different team. They were angry. They came to fight.”
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Beast AA

Beast

Posted
Posted
Ok. Why didn't he have confidence that Zach would get the first guy to ground out too? I don't even necessarily disagree with the decision. I disagree with the argument that Buck made the decision and Buck is a good manager therefore it must have been the right decision.

Is this just a rhetorical question?? If he didn't have Zach walk Castellanos, there wouldn't have been a DP situation. Plus, whoever was up next was going to be a less dangerous hitter. These things are clear -- you seem to be arguing just for the sake of argument here.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Go to topic listing

  • Posts

    • Il BuonO
      Why not Chayce McDermott?

      By Il BuonO · Posted

      I agree with those who say he probably needs to figure it out in Norfolk, however, they could bring also bring him up for a look when any of Baker, Tate, or Vespi reboard the shuttle. Maybe Povich had earned the call up, whereas they don't think McDermott has done that, but bringing him up as a temporary move couldn't hurt too much for the aforementioned pitchers.
    • gamiliel
      Basallo for Crochet?

      By gamiliel · Posted

      Big not necessarily tall is what he is saying.....Basallo is much thicker build, which actually may be better for a catcher anyway. Pudge was not thin--even before roids.
    • Bemorewins
      I sort of don't get Elias's plan

      By Bemorewins · Posted

      With this current starting pitching as is, barring an epic collapse by the Yankees, the chances of us winning the division are very low. Right now, in just about every other series (the series that Burnes and Rodriguez don't start) we are at a talent disadvantage. We have the #1 offense in all of baseball - we have scored the most runs and hit the most home runs and have scored 8, 11, and 17 in the last 3 series and we are all of 4-6 in our last 10 games. It's hard to see us being favored against even a decent team like the Mariners (with our starting pitching as is) given the talent disadvantage in the two rotations. Now we that doesn't mean that we couldn't/wouldn't pull it out. But I doubt that we would be favorites as things are going. And then when you look at a team like the Phillies with their rotation/offense/bullpen or even the Dodgers for that matter, I believe that even if we made it that far, we would be heavy underdogs against either opponent. I don't like our chances of continuously having to rely upon "beating the odds" round after round (I didn't even mention NY if we were to meet them). This is year 3 of Adley, 2 for Gunnar, and possibly our only with Burnes. Without making significant trades or major FA acquisitions, I don't see any near future scenarios where things are better for us, we have more talent or frankly a better opportunity.  Pitching injuries are so significant and so frequent in MLB now, that future projections are hazy at best. Because it is likely that you have to make pitching additions/acquisitions EVERY YEAR in order to seriously compete. If we don't make upgrades/trades this year, when will we do it? And what will be promised to us more than it is now?
    • glenn__davis
      Gunnar vs. Coby Mayo at the same place in time

      By glenn__davis · Posted

      I was wondering if you thought Coby Mayo should be brought up Roy.  
    • jdwilde1
      Bullpen 2024

      By jdwilde1 · Posted

      Cano hasn’t achieved consistent movement with his fastball, which really requires run and sink to be effective.  He’s also been hanging too many change ups.  I big part of his turn around last year was dropping to more of a sidearm delivery and his stuff gets flat when he loses that delivery slot.    
    • ChuckS
      I sort of don't get Elias's plan

      By ChuckS · Posted

      We need both.  My goal would be two backend bullpen arms and one starter at the deadline.  
    • interloper
      Why not Chayce McDermott?

      By interloper · Posted

      I'm sorry but who cares about his walk rate. We are using Bryan Baker. We are using Suarez as a starter. We are using Vespi. We are not in a position to nitpick the guy's walk rate.  For god's sake, call up someone who has some upside. It's not like he's going to do much worse than what we have right now. And he might just go nuts out of the bullpen. 

  • Popular Contributors

×
×
  • Create New...