Nick Markakis wins Gold Glove

[Frobby]

Do you have a reference for that? I thought the weren't even calling it field f/x anymore.

FIELDf/x is already in all 30 parks. Statcast is the new technology being expanded next season.

Here was my source: http://psilvas.wordpress.com/2014/10/07/take-me-out-to-the-ball-game/. But it may have been wrong. Either way, my point is that defensive analytical are getting more sophisticated all the time and some of the measures used today may prove to have been quite inaccurate.

[DrungoHazewood]

I always thought it was implied that it go to a player who made the most defensive contributions throughout the season. If a guy plays 5 games, but makes 5 great plays, should he win?

I thought the major problem with the Gold Gloves was that pretty much every aspect of the award was implied, assumed, maybe just made up on the spot. They've made a few reforms over the last few years so you can now change "every aspect" to "the majority".

[DrungoHazewood]

Couldn't have said it better. Nick makes no mistakes, catches anything he can dive or slide for, never bobbles grounders, makes the right throw accurately every time, plays caroms beautifully. He's just about perfect from a technical point of view. And yeah, he's a bit slow, but I agree with you that this is overstated.

Let's say you have a hitter, call him Juan Smith. He has great hitting mechanics. Beautiful, balanced swing. Works the pitcher. Good discipline. Fouls off tons of pitches. Hustles down the line every time. Hits behind the runner. Drops a beautiful bunt. But he OPSes .733.

Do you give him the silver slugger?

[weams]

Let's say you have a hitter, call him Juan Smith. He has great hitting mechanics. Beautiful, balanced swing. Works the pitcher. Good discipline. Fouls off tons of pitches. Hustles down the line every time. Hits behind the runner. Drops a beautiful bunt. But he OPSes .733.

Do you give him the silver slugger?

If I have a guy named Leo who hit 30 HR a year and .OPSd .755, Juan would sit on my bench. Unless he was a great defensive replacement, Then I would use him to cover for Leo's defense late.

[Frobby]

Let's say you have a hitter, call him Juan Smith. He has great hitting mechanics. Beautiful, balanced swing. Works the pitcher. Good discipline. Fouls off tons of pitches. Hustles down the line every time. Hits behind the runner. Drops a beautiful bunt. But he OPSes .733.

Do you give him the silver slugger?

No, but I think the situation is a little different. First, for whatever reason, not many players played a ton of games in RF this year -- only four guys with even 1,000 innings in RF. Just like they don't give the batting title to some guy who posted a .350 BA n 400 PA, they don't (usually) give gold gloves to guys who started less than 3/4 of the team's games at a position. (Yes, I realize there have been some exceptions.) Second, Nick's "traditional" stats were outstanding -- literally no errors and a lot of OF assists. Third -- and I know there can be a lot of difference of opinion here -- I just have a lot more confidence in the accuracy of advanced offensive metrics compared to defensive metrics.

Anyway, Nick OPS'd .729, has a great approach at the plate, rarely swings at bad pitches, rarely strikes out, puts the bat on the ball when it's most needed -- but I'm not advocating him for silver slugger. Jose Bautista can have that one.

[weams]

No, but I think the situation is a little different. First, for whatever reason, not many players played a ton of games in RF this year -- only four guys with even 1,000 innings in RF. Just like they don't give the batting title to some guy who posted a .350 BA n 400 PA, they don't (usually) give gold gloves to guys who started less than 3/4 of the team's games at a position. (Yes, I realize there have been some exceptions.) Second, Nick's "traditional" stats were outstanding -- literally no errors and a lot of OF assists. Third -- and I know there can be a lot of difference of opinion here -- I just have a lot more confidence in the accuracy of advanced offensive metrics compared to defensive metrics.

Anyway, Nick OPS'd .729, has a great approach at the plate, rarely swings at bad pitches, rarely strikes out, puts the bat on the ball when it's most needed -- but I'm not advocating him for silver slugger. Jose Bautista can have that one.

I agree with you on literally all of this.

[POR]

No, but I think the situation is a little different. First, for whatever reason, not many players played a ton of games in RF this year -- only four guys with even 1,000 innings in RF. Just like they don't give the batting title to some guy who posted a .350 BA n 400 PA, they don't (usually) give gold gloves to guys who started less than 3/4 of the team's games at a position. (Yes, I realize there have been some exceptions.) Second, Nick's "traditional" stats were outstanding -- literally no errors and a lot of OF assists. Third -- and I know there can be a lot of difference of opinion here -- I just have a lot more confidence in the accuracy of advanced offensive metrics compared to defensive metrics.

Anyway, Nick OPS'd .729, has a great approach at the plate, rarely swings at bad pitches, rarely strikes out, puts the bat on the ball when it's most needed -- but I'm not advocating him for silver slugger. Jose Bautista can have that one.

It is very interesting to look at games started in rightfield in the AL. Markakis started 147 games in right. He is the only RF that started at least 80% of his team games. Torii Hunter and Jose Baustista are the only others who started at least 75% of the games in RF.

It used to be the gold glove was awarded to three outfielders without specifying that it be a RF, CF and LF. It used to be primarily CFs that won. In theory it makes sense to specify the postions. However, in reality at least in RF in the AL this year most everyone except for Markakis did not play enough in RF to deserve to win.

[Dipper9]

That isn't the logic being used. Unfortunately this board is full of "he is slow as molasses" type analysis that tends to follow a group-think approach. Nick is a very good right fielder for lots of reasons, but many on this board sees his lack of speed (which is overstated IMO, he is slightly slower than average) and discount all the other things. It's fine and I'm over trying to debate this here, but I certainly don't appreciate the mantra that anyone who thinks he is a good outfielder is some simple minded buffoon who looks at error total. It just isn't so.

Nick is a very good defensive player who helps the team in a lot of ways. Congrats Nick!

I agree 100%. Cal was also slower than molasses, yet he positioned himself so he could get to balls easily. Nick does the same thing. He doesn't ever allow a should be double to become a triple due to a misplay. He has a strong accurate arm.

I love the OH, love it, but sometimes I think the over-analysis of stats ruins my fun of the game. Nick is a good baseball player and I want him resigned. I just don't want to pay $40 million for his services.

[LookitsPuck]

Obviously he needs to establish a track record, but if this is what Cain is going forward they're pretty close.

I strongly doubt Cain is going to have many seasons like his 2014 season. He's 28. Will be 29 to start the 2015 season. He had decent numbers in the minors, but he spent 9 seasons between rookie ball and AAA.

Jones is the better all around player. I think we're all having some recency bias going on here.

[LookitsPuck]

I wish people would stop talking about Dyson.

He's a 30 year old pinch runner. His career OPS is 657. His career OPS+ is 82. All the guy can do is pinch run or be a late inning defensive replacement. He's abysmal with the bat. And to be quite honest, he's exactly the kind of guy that shouldn't be talking trash. He's on the same level as a David Ross. All talk, nothing else. It takes a pretty big jackass to talk trash from the bench. Which is what he rides most of the time.

[Babypowder]

I strongly doubt Cain is going to have many seasons like his 2014 season. He's 28. Will be 29 to start the 2015 season. He had decent numbers in the minors, but he spent 9 seasons between rookie ball and AAA.

Jones is the better all around player. I think we're all having some recency bias going on here.

Like I said, IF this is his new normal... I don't think it's likely. I was only pointing out they were similar in value in 2014.

[Ohfan67]

I'm happy for Markakis and the O's. The award doesn't go to the player with the best defensive metrics, the award goes to the player that the managers respect the most (and I know some writers get a say too, but it's primarily the managers). It's still an honor to be highly regarded by your peers. And I think that it's an indication that some of us (including me) may view Markakis a little harshly because he didn't live up to our expectations and we are worried that the O's might sign him to an albatross contract. Regardless, it's an honor and I'm happy for Nick and the O's.

Interesting point though...often the gold glove award is influenced by offensive production, the player being super famous, etc. Can't really say that about Nick's award this year.

[Redskins Rick]

I'm happy for Markakis and the O's. The award doesn't go to the player with the best defensive metrics, the award goes to the player that the managers respect the most (and I know some writers get a say too, but it's primarily the managers). It's still an honor to be highly regarded by your peers. And I think that it's an indication that some of us (including me) may view Markakis a little harshly because he didn't live up to our expectations and we are worried that the O's might sign him to an albatross contract. Regardless, it's an honor and I'm happy for Nick and the O's.

Interesting point though...often the gold glove award is influenced by offensive production, the player being super famous, etc. Can't really say that about Nick's award this year.

Maybe Nick is getting move love from his peers in MLB, than his own fans?

[Dipper9]

Yes, I chuckled.

Did you watch the Royal's outfield defense the last couple of years?

They are pretty clearly superior to the O's players (or anyone else for that matter).

Cain is far superior to jones defensively

Not saying this is the end all be all, but just because guys go flying around diving all over the field does not, to me, mean they are a better defensive player. Cal rarely dove and he was clearly the best shortstop in the AL. Defense is about more than just being really fast.

[Phantom]

Not saying this is the end all be all, but just because guys go flying around diving all over the field does not, to me, mean they are a better defensive player. Cal rarely dove and he was clearly the best shortstop in the AL. Defense is about more than just being really fast.

In the outfield, the faster player is the better defender the vast majority of the time.