Nick Markakis wins Gold Glove

[25 Nuggets]

Also I say he is a pinch runner. Not a ball player. It is all me. By the way. It's not like he is 24 and might learn to hit.

He's got close to 1000 plate appearances; it's not like he's always a pinch runner.

[weams]

He's got close to 1000 plate appearances; it's not like he's always a pinch runner.

Mostly he is. Plus his speed kept him around to ... what ... age 31?

[weams]

Mostly he is. Plus his speed kept him around to ... what ... age 31?

I think those stolen bases accumulate WAR. so that's cool.

[Frobby]

Dyson's a useful player. He started 66 games, and got into 54 others as a pinch runner, defensive replacement or a pinch hitter. I do think it's important to understand that these guys are being used in ways that take advantages of their strengths and minimize their weaknesses. You can't really make a statement like "he has 7-8 WAR in less than two seasons of at bats," when a very large fraction of his value is coming from games where he was inserted as a pinch runner or a defensive replacement, and where he is being used largely as a platoon player when he does start (88% of his career starts have been against RHP). It's not like he would produce 3.5-4 WAR if you used him the way the Orioles use Markakis.

[weams]

Dyson's a useful player. He started 66 games, and got into 54 others as a pinch runner, defensive replacement or a pinch hitter. I do think it's important to understand that these guys are being used in ways that take advantages of their strengths and minimize their weaknesses. You can't really make a statement like "he has 7-8 WAR in less than two seasons of at bats," when a very large fraction of his value is coming from games where he was inserted as a pinch runner or a defensive replacement, and where he is being used largely as a platoon player when he does start (88% of his career starts have been against RHP). It's not like he would produce 3.5-4 WAR if you used him the way the Orioles use Markakis.

Thank you. It's unbelievable how you can bend Lough into a full-time player. Or Nate McLouth.

[Frobby]

Thank you. It's unbelievable how you can bend Lough into a full-time player. Or Nate McLouth.

I don't want to denigrate these guys, at all. McLouth and Lough had good value to us. Lough hit decently vs. LHP with KC but Buck seemed pretty convinced that he's better suited to a role similar to Dyson's.

[weams]

I don't want to denigrate these guys, at all. McLouth and Lough had good value to us. Lough hit decently vs. LHP with KC but Buck seemed pretty convinced that he's better suited to a role similar to Dyson's.

They are just role players. That is all. Not full time marquee players.

[Can_of_corn]

They are just role players. That is all. Not full time marquee players.

You ain't seeing Nick's name on top a Marquee anymore.

[Frobby]

They are just role players. That is all. Not full time marquee players.

Every good team needs its Lowensteins and Roenickes. I'm very appreciative of players who play a role well.

[Loophole]

Dyson's a useful player. He started 66 games, and got into 54 others as a pinch runner, defensive replacement or a pinch hitter. I do think it's important to understand that these guys are being used in ways that take advantages of their strengths and minimize their weaknesses. You can't really make a statement like "he has 7-8 WAR in less than two seasons of at bats," when a very large fraction of his value is coming from games where he was inserted as a pinch runner or a defensive replacement, and where he is being used largely as a platoon player when he does start (88% of his career starts have been against RHP). It's not like he would produce 3.5-4 WAR if you used him the way the Orioles use Markakis.

Sure, he plays better against RHP. He's still getting about half the PAs vs righties than he would in a full season. And sure, he accumulates value by getting free SB opportunities, but he also OBPs in the .320s (and walks more than most of the O's); it's not like he'd start getting fewer chances if he's given the opportunity to get on base more than once per game. For a defensive CF specialist his offense isn't nearly as bad as people make it out to be. UZR and DRS both tell a story about his defense and we all saw what he was capable of in the ALCS, aside from being a *****.

I don't see why he wouldn't put up 3.5 WAR in a full season. That's 0.4 more than he finished with in half a season's worth of defensive innings. His offense vs lefties isn't gonna drive a stake into his WAR. His defense absolutely could've made him a 4.5-5 WAR guy had he played every day. That isn't a stretch at all. He could be the best defensive outfielder in the game right now and he's been better with the stick than Mark Belanger ever was.

[Frobby]

Sure, he plays better against RHP. He's still getting about half the PAs vs righties than he would in a full season. And sure, he accumulates value by getting free SB opportunities, but he also OBPs in the .320s (and walks more than most of the O's); it's not like he'd start getting fewer chances if he's given the opportunity to get on base more than once per game. For a defensive CF specialist his offense isn't nearly as bad as people make it out to be. UZR and DRS both tell a story about his defense and we all saw what he was capable of in the ALCS, aside from being a *****.

I don't see why he wouldn't put up 3.5 WAR in a full season. That's 0.4 more than he finished with in half a season's worth of defensive innings. His offense vs lefties isn't gonna drive a stake into his WAR. His defense absolutely could've made him a 4.5-5 WAR guy had he played every day. That isn't a stretch at all. He could be the best defensive outfielder in the game right now and he's been better with the stick than Mark Belanger ever was.

I think he'd be playing more if the people who employ him and see him day in and day out believed what you do. I'll confess, I haven't seen enough of Dyson to have a direct opinion, I'm just looking at how the professionals who run his organization choose to deploy him.

[cacavolante]

This isn't even close to accurate.

With this kind of well supported logic, I'm not sure how any of us could argue otherwise.

[25 Nuggets]

Just for the record, is Steve Pearce starting material or simply a role player on next year's team?

Pearce should be a role player on next year's team, but he's worth getting 400 or so plate appearances. I'm not buying what he did this season.

[Moose Milligan]

Let's say you have a hitter, call him Juan Smith. He has great hitting mechanics. Beautiful, balanced swing. Works the pitcher. Good discipline. Fouls off tons of pitches. Hustles down the line every time. Hits behind the runner. Drops a beautiful bunt. But he OPSes .733.

Do you give him the silver slugger?

I sure do, just to make you angry.

[Frobby]

Pretty funny stuff. Nate McLouth did a pretty good impersonation of an everyday player in 2013 when he played 146 games and put up a .727 OPS.

Take a closer look. McLouth started all 109 games where the O's faced a RH starter. He started 18 of 53 games where we faced a LH starter. That number probably would have been lower, except that Reimold and Pearce both went on the DL.

I don't like the term "marquee player," however. Markakis is more of a lunch pail regular

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