Dan Duquette's Greatest Personnel Move

[Number5]

Wins? You are giving me wins?

FIP ERA+ 2014 salary (millions)

Norris 4.22 105 5.3

Chen 3.89 108 4.072

Tillman 4.01 114 .546

Gonzo 4.89 119 .529

Gaus 3.41 107 .5025

So Norris has the second highest FIP and the lowest ERA+ while making the most money.

Not sure how you can look at that and think Norris was a better acquisition then Chen, Gonzo, or Gausman.

All of which is, of course, irrelevant as to whether or not Norris for Hader and Hoes was a good trade. That we have other pitchers who have performed well is a good thing, and certainly not a knock on Norris.

[weams]

http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2014/09/06/sunball/pdB2SYj7Uw82XMlhiJEswM/story.html

“I had known Russell Smouse for many years and the Angelos family from sitting next to them at owners meetings over the years,” Duquette said. “So, there was a relationship there.”

[Can_of_corn]

All of which is, of course, irrelevant as to whether or not Norris for Hader and Hoes was a good trade. That we have other pitchers who have performed well is a good thing, and certainly not a knock on Norris.

It certainly means it wasn't the "steal of the century", which is what Atomic said and Weams agreed to.

The O's gave up two prospects and a draft pick for a #5 in their rotation. He also happens to make more then the other four.

[weams]

I actually agree. Bud has been a huge addition.

Well, not steal of the century of course. But good, valuable, trade at the time

[SteveO]

Wins? You are giving me wins?

FIP ERA+ 2014 salary (millions)

Norris 4.22 105 5.3

Chen 3.89 108 4.072

Tillman 4.01 114 .546

Gonzo 4.89 119 .529

Gaus 3.41 107 .5025

So Norris has the second highest FIP and the lowest ERA+ while making the most money.

Not sure how you can look at that and think Norris was a better acquisition then Chen, Gonzo, or Gausman.

Oh I don't think it was the best acquisition but just because it was not as good as other ones does not make it a acquisition I would look at say " I don't care for"

I think it was pretty good considering what we gave up to get him. I also think it remains to be seen if he can still be flipped for even more ongoing dividends. I like Hader to some degree but he will have to become a good starter to make that deal come out even IMO. I doubt that happens but time will tell.

[Number5]

It certainly means it wasn't the "steal of the century", which is what Atomic said and Weams agreed to.

The O's gave up two prospects and a draft pick for a #5 in their rotation. He also happens to make more then the other four.

Sorry, I was responding to your comments saying you didn't like the deal, but not giving any reason that was actually relevant to the deal. This is the first relevant reason you have offered. Personally, I think Norris has been easily worth more than that cost. Of course I agree that it was not the "deal of the century." I didn't think he meant that literally, but if he did, I would agree with you that that is a gross exaggeration.

[weams]

It certainly means it wasn't the "steal of the century", which is what Atomic said and Weams agreed to.

The O's gave up two prospects and a draft pick for a #5 in their rotation. He also happens to make more then the other four.

And I was wrong. I just think poorly of the Astros. Of course.

[Can_of_corn]

And I was wrong. I just think poorly of the Astros. Of course.

And I love draft picks.

I had a very sad draft day this year.

[Can_of_corn]

Oh I don't think it was the best acquisition but just because it was not as good as other ones does not make it a acquisition I would look at say " I don't care for"

I think it was pretty good considering what we gave up to get him. I also think it remains to be seen if he can still be flipped for even more ongoing dividends. I like Hader to some degree but he will have to become a good starter to make that deal come out even IMO. I doubt that happens but time will tell.

Not saying it was a huge mistake just when I add up the columns the result I get is less then 0. If Norris were cheaper payroll wise it would move it a bit the other way.

Getting 2 + years of a not particularly cheap back of the rotation arm just doesn't excite me.

[SteveO]

Not saying it was a huge mistake just when I add up the columns the result I get is less then 0. If Norris were cheaper payroll wise it would move it a bit the other way.

Getting 2 + years of a not particularly cheap back of the rotation arm just doesn't excite me.

When it helps you win the division and its not my money being spent, I am down with it

Its not as if Norris was astronomically overpaid. I agree with you cost wise he is the least efficient of the starters not named Ubaldo but that said he has been very valuable to this team IMO

[weams]

Getting 2 + years of a not particularly cheap back of the rotation arm just doesn't excite me.

When you need one, and you have the money, I am all for it.

[weams]

When it helps you win the division and its not my money being spent, I am down with it

Its not as if Norris was astronomically overpaid. I agree with you cost wise he is the least efficient of the starters not named Ubaldo but that said he has been very valuable to this team IMO

I do agree with this too.

[BohKnowsBmore]

Not saying it was a huge mistake just when I add up the columns the result I get is less then 0. If Norris were cheaper payroll wise it would move it a bit the other way.

Getting 2 + years of a not particularly cheap back of the rotation arm just doesn't excite me.

To be fair, though, when was the last time we only had ~5.5 starters throughout the year? There's something to be said for a solid (105 ERA+) guy manning that #5 spot compared to the revolving door we've had in past years.

[LA2]

Norris outpitched David Price in a nailbiter that clinched the ALDS vs. a fearsome Tigers lineup. 6.67 innings, 2 H, 6 Ks: Priceless!

[Can_of_corn]

Norris outpitched David Price in a nailbiter that clinched the ALDS vs. a fearsome Tigers lineup. 6.67 innings, 2 H, 6 Ks: Priceless!

Then there was his 4.1 inning 9 hit 4 ER effort against the less then fearsome Royals lineup.

I have never said he is without value. Just that he isn't any special in the context of major league starters.