Sun-Times says O's want Cedeno, Gallagher, and 2 more prospects

[JTrea81]

Well, the easiest to cite is the BA write-up for this year's book. I've posted it several times, but here we go again

"Despite his athleticism, Patterson never has gotten the hang of playing second base. He doesn't read balls well off the bat or range well to his right. He began seeing time in LF and CF in May and player there exclusively in August. He has solid CF range but a below-average arm for the OF. He doesn't have the arm to play SS, 3b or RF, so he's somewhat limited as a utilityman."

He might have enough pop to stick at 1B, that's where the Angels played Kendrick for a period of time after he was called up. How is Kendrick's D compared to Patterson's?

[byrdz]

If Patterson were included as a 3rd player in a deal to get Roberts for 2 years, I think that speaks volumes as to how confident the Cubs are that he will not stick at 2b.

Or maybe it says that he's just not ready yet. They are trying to win now it would seem and Patterson isn't going to help them with that in the next couple of years.

[nyjimbo]

Cedeno, EPat, Gallagher and one of Ceda/Veal/Colvin for Payton, BRob and 2 million dollars.

That would be a move I would make. Has anyone seen EPat play 2nd base and in their opinion just how poor is he? Is it footwork only, or does he not show adequate range and/or arm strenght? I'm only asking because I've never seen him, but his offensive potential looks very good.

[Boy Howdy]

If Patterson were included as a 3rd player in a deal to get Roberts for 2 years, I think that speaks volumes as to how confident the Cubs are that he will not stick at 2b.

I note that he shifted out to CF/LF last May and stayed there for the remainder of the year. Wouldn't it have been a good idea to work him at 2b if they thought he'd be there long term?

You may very well be right, but everything I've ever been able to dig up about Patterson's position switch indicates that the Cubs thought he'd be more valuable to the big league club if he could play multiple positions.

Similar to what they did with Ronny Cedeno by getting him some outfield action in Venezuela this winter.

[JTrea81]

EPat's defense has been discussed here:

http://forum.orioleshangout.com/forums/showthread.php?t=56565

and here:

http://forum.orioleshangout.com/forums/showthread.php?t=56985

I just took a look at those two threads and I'll point this part of one out:

Here's some more stats for Patterson including PECOTA comps from that same blog that gave the BA scouting reports:

A quick look at Eric Patterson’s PECOTA page shows a player with a bright future ahead of him. Based on his performance prior to the 2007 season, Eric was projected to hit the following batting lines over the next 5 years (including 2007) at the major league level.

2007: .287/.351/.465

2008: .279/.344/.450

2009: .287/.349/.469

2010: .278/.341/.457

2011: .282/.347/.466

His 5-year projected S-VORP is 131.3. He’s projected to have a total WARP over those 5 years of 26.0. For comparison sakes, the Cubs current 2nd baseman, Mark DeRosa is projected to have an S-VORP over the next 5 years of 14.0 and a WARP of 8.9. Aramis Ramirez is projected to have an S-VORP of 139.5 and a total WARP of 24.1. Derrek Lee: 83.8 and 15.9. Soriano: 116 and 23.2. Pie: 137.9 and 26.0. Murton: 76 and 17.4

.

[Delbird]

Well, the easiest to cite is the BA write-up for this year's book. I've posted it several times, but here we go again

"Despite his athleticism, Patterson never has gotten the hang of playing second base. He doesn't read balls well off the bat or range well to his right. He began seeing time in LF and CF in May and player there exclusively in August. He has solid CF range but a below-average arm for the OF. He doesn't have the arm to play SS, 3b or RF, so he's somewhat limited as a utilityman."

I view Patterson as a potential Chone Figgins type, with the potential to play multiple positions, although the comment above seems to refute that idea. I was under the impression he had the versatlity to play a few positions and with his speed could be an offensive force. He just strikes me as a potential Chone clone.

[Stotle]

Or maybe it says that he's just not ready yet. They are trying to win now it would seem and Patterson isn't going to help them with that in the next couple of years.

Shrug. Seems like they would have kept him at 2b last year to keep improving. Moving him to LF/CF is a pretty clear signal that their patience was fading.

[thriftyorioles]

If the Orioles trade both Roberts and Payton to Chicago, is four back from the Cubs enough for those two?

Yes, you and I both know that Payton is simply dead weight. Yes, he is a serviceable 4th OF, but he has ZERO chance of being an Oriole after this year. If his inclusion and eating his salary helps get back a 3rd and 4th GOOD prospect back from the Cubs then you do it. Payton by himself brings back no more than a AAAA player from most teams.

[Stotle]

You may very well be right, but everything I've ever been able to dig up about Patterson's position switch indicates that the Cubs thought he'd be more valuable to the big league club if he could play multiple positions.

Similar to what they did with Ronny Cedeno by getting him some outfield action in Venezuela this winter.

Yeah, sort of. But isn't there a difference between working out at a different position during the offseason and playing OF from May-August? Especially considering he doesn't really play 2b well yet?

[Ruzious]

EPat's defense has been discussed here:

http://forum.orioleshangout.com/forums/showthread.php?t=56565

and here:

http://forum.orioleshangout.com/forums/showthread.php?t=56985

I just took a look at those two threads and I'll point this part of one out:

.

And here's more from a post a made I couple of weeks ago:

Here's what an ESPN Insider blogger had to say about Patterson as a 2Bman http://insider.espn.go.com/espn/blog... 3dravitz_nate written in July, 2007:

Quote:

While there were major questions about Patterson's defense coming out of Georgia Tech, he showed marked improvement last season, and it was no longer considered a barrier to his path to the majors. Although he may get a shot to play left field now, it's highly unlikely that his bat will play at a corner outfield position over the long haul. With Mark DeRosa in year one of a three-year contract and Mike Fontenot continuing to confound expectations, Patterson may not get a shot to play second base in the majors anytime soon. However, things can change quickly in the major leagues, especially with players of the caliber of DeRosa and Fontenot.

And here's what a blogger with a sabermetrics bent had to say http://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/sto.../10/1108/94872 :

Quote:

Patterson's 5-year valuation is quite strong and given the fact he hit .297/.359/.457 in his first full season at AAA, he should project as a pretty solid major leaguer in '08. A few questions have been raised about his ability to play second base, but even with below average defense he's quite a commodity: A young second basemen with strong on-base ability and decent pop making the major league minimum is something a number of GM's would kill for.

[Stotle]

EPat's defense has been discussed here:

http://forum.orioleshangout.com/forums/showthread.php?t=56565

and here:

http://forum.orioleshangout.com/forums/showthread.php?t=56985

I just took a look at those two threads and I'll point this part of one out:

.

It's certainly possible that his bat turns out to be valuable enough to offset his poor defense. Again, as a third or fourth player it isn't the end of the world. It seems pretty telling that the Cubs would be looking to move a 2b that projects to be more valuable than arguably their best ML players over the next five years. He's free to toss in as a third but Ceda is untouchable? Go ahead and take a shot on Patterson -- if BAL does I hope it works out! I'm just not holding out much hope, that's all.

[WebLink21]

We have a winner as long as the 4th player is Veal.

I would take that deal. If we got both Cedeno and Patterson, we would have a better chance that one would work out as a MI. I think thats all we need is one to make it (added with Gallagher) to make this a sucessful deal for us. If they both were to work out that would just be a bonus. I could do without Veal in the deal though. I would rather have Hart if we want another pitcher, but that is just my opinion.

[Stotle]

And here's more from a post a made I couple of weeks ago:

If that bat carries him, great. You just have to cross your fingers that BA is way off in their assessment. It's pretty strong and pretty harsh -- something they tend to avoid unless their fairly certain about what they're writing.

This also doesn't address why CHN moved him to the OF. If everyone seems to agree their are questions about him at 2b, and Murton/Pie are in the OF already, why shift him off 2b last season rather than letting him "improve" there. Seems to me CHN doesn't think he'll stick and they wanted to find a way to get his bat in the lineup.

[Sports Guy]

EPat has to be willing to be willing to work at it but i think he could be an average defensive second baseman and with his bat, that makes him an above average second baseman overall.

[Stotle]

EPat has to be willing to be willing to work at it but i think he could be an average defensive second baseman and with his bat, that makes him an above average second baseman overall.

Well, the mind may be willing, but.........

And why does no one else find it odd that this talented offensive prospect who obviously needs reps at 2b to improve was moved off of 2b for a huge chunk of last summer?

His bat could be great...it may have to be elite.