Trading De Aza

[CA-ORIOLE]

I haven't seen anything substantial, mostly that he's a "proven" player and that you don't think Loughs defense will make up for the very small gap in their numbers against righties and that you trust your feelings on his defensive value more so than the metrics. And that somehow that small gap is enough to ignore Lough's usefulness as a pinch runner and defensive sub, and his extremely favorable cheap years of control. This isn't exactly a very convincing argument.

It seems to me you just like De Aza more than Lough, which is fine, but you haven't actually responded with anything quantifiable. It's been all nebulous, gut-feeling stuff.

Do you really not understand how a guy regularly placed in a position of strength and shielded from areas of weakness might have an artificially high WAR or that his rate stats on defense won't actually translate in regular full time play? Confined to LF, I don't think the rate of defensive efficiency will be as large as people think it will be. If De Aza has to play RF (or CF), that's a different story I guess.

That a guy is proven with regular play and another guy is not proven with regular play is a fact, not a gut feeling. That you think Lough will perform in accordance with his current rate of defensie and offensive value is a supposition on your part that I don't buy.

Observationally, I think De Aza has the more patient approach (despite his recent struggles). The career walk rates and BA/OBP differential would seam to bear that out.

No only does De Aza have a higher OPS against RHP but he also has a 17 point higher OBP against RHP (that's career, he was better last year). A bit of a difference in importance since we're talking leadoff hitter.

[CA-ORIOLE]

Nope, just pointing out that, so far, his approach has been bad.

You were the one that brought the issue of approach up in the first place.

I am much more concerned with both players' career numbers versus right handed pitching.

Thanks, he's performing poorly right now. being fooled on a lot of offspeed stuff. Considering his track record. I expect he's been through this before and will adjust.

[Can_of_corn]

Thanks, he's performing poorly right now. being fooled on a lot of offspeed stuff. Considering his track record. I expect he's been through this before and will adjust.

But, once again, even if he reverts to career numbers the difference between him and Lough versus right handed pitching is marginal unless you think that Lough's numbers are not sustainable.

[CA-ORIOLE]

But, once again, even if he reverts to career numbers the difference between him and Lough versus right handed pitching is marginal unless you think that Lough's numbers are not sustainable.

I think his rate numbers particularly on defense would not be sustainable and I think his offense would take a hit with more exposure. In LF I think De Aza would close the gap enough and has more offensive upside. I would go with the 29 pt higher OPS (17 point higher OBP) and De Aza's track record for now. "IF" I was forced to trade one this year (at the moment) it would be Lough.

Like it or not, De Aza is being counted on the be the leadoff hitter against RHP. Not sure we have better options (not Lough imo), so I would entrust that to him for quite awhile longer.

[jabba72]

Trade him for Barry Bonds: circa 2000. And a million just to be cool

[Can_of_corn]

I think his rate numbers particularly on defense would not be sustainable and I think his offense would take a hit with more exposure. In LF I think De Aza would close the gap enough and has more offensive upside. I would go with the 29 pt higher OPS (17 point higher OBP) and De Aza's track record for now. "IF" I was forced to trade one this year (at the moment) it would be Lough.

Like it or not, De Aza is being counted on the be the leadoff hitter against RHP. Not sure we have better options (not Lough imo), so I would entrust that to him for quite awhile longer.

But how exposed is he going to be as a platoon hitter, the role you want for De Aza?

[CA-ORIOLE]

But how exposed is he going to be as a platoon hitter, the role you want for De Aza?

Because he'll likely be exposed to a wider variety of pitchers and offspeed stuff than he has been in selective playing time.

[wildcard]

I don't think anyone is getting traded until July.

Dan and Buck have perfected the art of the DL. Ubaldo steps in a pot hole. Paredes hurts his back lifting weighs. Stuff happens to the O's when there is a roster crunch.

In July Reimold has an opt out. July is trade season with the end of the month being the non waiver trade deadline. I think Dan and Buck wait until then to move a player or two and acquire some help for the playoff push.

[Can_of_corn]

Because he'll be exposed to a wider variety of pitchers and offspeed stuff than he has in selective playing time.

Have you noticed a tendency for Buck to only play him against pitchers with a certain repertoire? I would find that fascinating to look at if you have.

I could see that going on somewhere but not here, not with Buck.

[CA-ORIOLE]

I don't think anyone is getting traded until July.

Dan and Buck have perfected the art of the DL. Ubaldo steps in a pot hole. Paredes hurts his back lifting weighs. Stuff happens to the O's when there is a roster crunch.

In July Reimold has an opt out. July is trade season with the end of the month being the non waiver trade deadline. I think Dan and Buck wait until then to move a player or two and acquire some help for the playoff push.

You are right. I suspect they will probably hold their cards here and shuffle the deck when the time comes. If De Aza does fold or piss off Buck enough I could see Lough being the replacement..

[CA-ORIOLE]

Have you noticed a tendency for Buck to only play him against pitchers with a certain repertoire? I would find that fascinating to look at if you have.

I could see that going on somewhere but not here, not with Buck.

Buck looks at career numbers against certain pitchers all the time (I know you and others don't take a lot of stock in that). I'm pretty sure he matches types of pitchers as well. Flaherty was omitted against good changeup guys for awhile, Pearce and probably Delmon won't pay against tough RHPs'/slider guys etc. Davis may get a day off against certain LHP's etc. I guess you could make the argument either way (worse or better with regular time). I just know that one of the 2 here has been thoroughly exposed and one really hasn't and one has better plate discipline than the other (small sample size excepted) .

[wildcard]

You are right. I suspect they will probably hold their cards here and shuffle the deck when the time comes. If De Aza does fold or piss off Buck enough I could see Lough being the replacement..

If De Aza does not perform up to Buck's standards then he becomes a bench player until July. Strangely enough Delmon is looking better in right field. He looks like he has lost some weight and he is moving pretty well. He may not be pretty out there but he seems to get the job done. He may turn out to be no worse than Cruz was. We could see Snider in left more.

[CA-ORIOLE]

If De Aza does not perform up to Buck's standards then he becomes a bench player until July. Strangely enough Delmon is looking better in right field. He looks like he has lost some weight and he is moving pretty well. He may not be pretty out there but he seem to get the job done. He may turn out to be not worst than Cruz was. We could see Snider in left more.

He really does. It's kind of amazing actually.

[weams]

If De Aza does not perform up to Buck's standards then he becomes a bench player until July. Strangely enough Delmon is looking better in right field. He looks like he has lost some weight and he is moving pretty well. He may not be pretty out there but he seems to get the job done. He may turn out to be no worse than Cruz was. We could see Snider in left more.

He's better than Cruz was. Even before working with Brady on explosion and quickness.

[Roll Tide]

He's better than Cruz was. Even before working with Brady on explosion and quickness.

This is true ....but I don't see us trading De Aza unless we are out of it.