Help explain the hate for Showalter.

[BMann]

These are all good points. Just reading SoSH for instance, man, they LOATHE Buck. I've just never really seen that type of contempt for a Manager. They don't even really talk bad about our players, but they hate Showalter.

Undoubtedly because he's the first O's manager whose teams consistently BEAT the Red Sox since, I don't know, Earl?! (Davey was only here two years, not long enough to really get under our rivals' skin). I completely get why the BloSox fans hate Buck. Same reason I couldn't stand Joe Torre all those years. His teams always beat ours.

When maddon was with the rays I don't think any orioles fans had anything poor to say about him.

I was about to post something very similar. Maddon was a guy I had a lot of respect for, even when he was beating us. You may ask, "What about Torre? What was so bad about him?" Nothing, really, except he was winning with the most expensive rosters in MLB history. I'm pretty sure I could've managed a few of his teams to titles. Maddon never had that luxury, nor does Buck...

[Redskins Rick]

There wasn't a ton of love for Buck here in OH, in the early days.

[Frobby]

I don't think there is much hate out there for Buck. Whenever I talk to a fan of another team about the Orioles, one of the first things they mention is what a good manager Buck is. SoSH is hardly representative of fan sentiment. That used to be a good site ten years ago, but somewhere along the line it became a haven for bitter, caustic, swearword laden commentary without much actual analysis.

[DrungoHazewood]

When Buck came on board there was widespread concern that, after an initial honeymoon surge, that eventually everyone would tire of his micromanaging and hardline approach. And he'd get fired. That was basically what happened everywhere else he'd managed. He was not considered a nice guy in baseball, not a player's manager. More like a guy who was wound too tight and didn't trust anyone but himself to do everything. Not that I think random fans from other team's messageboards have that level of knowledge, attention, nuance etc. but maybe some of that history influences the view of those outside the O's organization and fanbase. We've only seen first-hand the older, probably more restrained and mature Buck. There's probably also something to the fact that the O's don't really have any outspoken big stars (Jones notwithstanding), so the relatively high-profile manager is the de facto target of other fans' ire.

[DrungoHazewood]

There wasn't a ton of love for Buck here in OH, in the early days.

Maybe for about fifteen minutes that was true. But Buck took a team that was (I'm not looking this up, or even making sure it adds up to 162) about 35-80 and immediately managed them to a 40-25 finish to the year. He got popular, even quasi-messianic, fast.

[Redskins Rick]

When Buck came on board there was widespread concern that, after an initial honeymoon surge, that eventually everyone would tire of his micromanaging and hardline approach. And he'd get fired. That was basically what happened everywhere else he'd managed. He was not considered a nice guy in baseball, not a player's manager. More like a guy who was wound too tight and didn't trust anyone but himself to do everything. Not that I think random fans from other team's messageboards have that level of knowledge, attention, nuance etc. but maybe some of that history influences the view of those outside the O's organization and fanbase. We've only seen first-hand the older, probably more restrained and mature Buck. There's probably also something to the fact that the O's don't really have any outspoken big stars (Jones notwithstanding), so the relatively high-profile manager is the de facto target of other fans' ire.

According to Jeter's book, Buck was loved in New York. It was his standing up to King George and refusing to can his entire coaching staff and bring in new guys that had him shown the door.

Sometimes managers do learn to be better managers after getting fired more than once.

I guess that is why owners keep recycling previously managers.

[Redskins Rick]

Maybe for about fifteen minutes that was true. But Buck took a team that was (I'm not looking this up, or even making sure it adds up to 162) about 35-80 and immediately managed them to a 40-25 finish to the year. He got popular, even quasi-messianic, fast.

I didn't mean the majority wasn't happy with him, but the doom and gloom crew sure wanted him gone.

[TouchemAll]

Pretty high profile to even casual fans because of the baseball tonight gig and time as a Yankee. Successful. Pretty opinionated. Confident. Good with media. Definitely talks the "play the game the right way" vibe a lot. He's called out the Yanks and some others about payroll. Opinionated. He said a few things about Joe Madden when he was Tampa manager. They don't like each other. Some people are not a fan of the folksy "aw shucks" way of speaking with the media. Buck might bug me if he managed a team I disliked passionately. But thankfully he works for the O's.

This ^^^^

[LA2]

I don't think there is much hate out there for Buck. Whenever I talk to a fan of another team about the Orioles, one of the first things they mention is what a good manager Buck is. SoSH is hardly representative of fan sentiment. That used to be a good site ten years ago, but somewhere along the line it became a haven for bitter, caustic, swearword laden commentary without much actual analysis.

Ever since 2012, in my trash-talking sessions with Yankee fans up here, Buck gets mentioned as much as any player as what they fear about the Orioles.

[WEAVERMAN]

Let's just hope we can hang to Buck for a long time....like forever.

[Can_of_corn]

When maddon was with the rays I don't think any orioles fans had anything poor to say about him.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Does calling him a hispter count?

Or accusing him of doing random stuff just to show how smart he is?

Cause I did both.

[Palmoripken]

I believe that that is probably it.

Showalter has been an integral part of making the Orioles a perennial contender again ...... and they don't like it.

When you are no longer the "loveable loser", no longer a team that you will likely take at least 2 out of 3 games from (or sweep) when you play them most of the time, well ...... then you've just made a pain in the ass out of yourself to the previous "good sportsmanship" fans of rival teams.

I went to Fenway Park a couple of times in 1993 when the Orioles were contending for the division title, and the Red Sox were under .500.

They I went to Fenway Park again in 2009, when the Orioles were finishing up what would be there 12th consecutive losing season.

My experiences at the stadium were ...... different. Perhaps that's just my perception, though.

I would agree with both of you as well. In the mid 2000's, the Sox and Yankees fans were pretty nice to me. Hell even when I went to New York for a game the last season of Yankee Stadium. I really didn't get too much crap from the fans. But since we've become relevant again, I think our team and thus by extension Buck have become easier to hate by the opposition. I mean I'll admit here myself. I hate the Red Sox more now after they've won three WS since the fanbase acts like they're hot s*it and forgets that they still did go 86 years without a WS title but in 2004, I was enjoying every minute of their comeback against the Yankees in that ALCS and even found myself liking guys like Ortiz, Schilling, and Youkillis but since then? I hate the Sox as much as I do the Yankees. Now part of that to be fair also coincides with the fact that I despise New England's football team among the most in sports and I love pointing out to Patriots fans how their team has become like the Yankees in some ways.

[OFFNY]

Palmoripken said:

 

I would agree with both of you as well. In the mid 2000's, the Sox and Yankees fans were pretty nice to me. Hell even when I went to New York for a game the last season of Yankee Stadium. I really didn't get too much crap from the fans. But since we've become relevant again, I think our team and thus by extension Buck have become easier to hate by the opposition. I mean I'll admit here myself. I hate the Red Sox more now after they've won three WS since the fanbase acts like they're hot s*it and forgets that they still did go 86 years without a WS title but in 2004, I was enjoying every minute of their comeback against the Yankees in that ALCS and even found myself liking guys like Ortiz, Schilling, and Youkilis but since then? I hate the Sox as much as I do the Yankees. Now part of that to be fair also coincides with the fact that I despise New England's football team among the most in sports and I love pointing out to Patriots fans how their team has become like the Yankees in some ways.

 

o

 

Good points ...... but I still like Schilling.

In the off-season between 2007 and 2008, Schilling was contemplating whether or not he would play for one more year, or retire. He was asked if he would play for the Yankees, who were rumored to be willing to offer him A LOT of money to sign with them.

Schilling replied that he had played a significant role in the heated Red Sox-Yankees rivalry between 2004 and 2007, and that he subsequently vowed to never pitch for the Yankees, no matter how much money they offered him.

Schilling asserted that him signing and playing for the Yankees would be like trading sides in the Hatfield- McCoy feud ....... hence, his vow to never pitch for the Yankees, especially after he helped dethrone them in the legendary 2004 ALCS. 

Schilling said that he might be willing to play for one more year for a team like the D-Rays, and perhaps mentor their young pitchers. Keep in mind that at that the time, Tampa Bay was coming off of 10 consecutive losing seasons, and were not yet the fierce rivals of either the Red Sox or the Yankees yet.

Also, I think that Schilling is a good, very frank baseball commentator in the broadcast booth.

 

o

[Palmoripken]

Good points ...... but I still like Schilling.

In the off-season between 2007 and 2008, Schilling was contemplating whether or not he would play for one more year, or retire. He was asked if he would play for the Yankees, who were rumored to be willing to offer him A LOT of money to sign with them.

Schilling replied that he had played a significant role in the the Red Sox-Yankees rivalry between 2004 and 2007, and that subsequently, vowed to never pitch for the Yankees, no matter how much money they offered him.

The Red Sox are rivals of the Yankees, so Schilling stated that it would be like trading sides in the Hatfield- McCoy feud....... hence, his vow to never pitch for the Yankees, especially after he helped dethrone them in the legendary 2004 ALCS. He said that that would be tantamount to going from the Hatfields to the McCoys, or Vice Versa.

Schilling said that he might be willing to play for one more year for a team like the D-Rays, and perhaps mentor their young pitchers. Keep in mind that at that the time, Tampa Bay was coming off of 10 consecutive losing seasons, and were not yet the fierce rivals of either the Red Sox or the Yankees yet.

Also, I think that Schilling is a good, very frank baseball commentator in the broadcast booth.

I guess good points about Schilling. I always did and still do like Pedro and I like that his older brother is with our organization now. Ramon was a pretty decent pitcher in his own right though not HoF material like Pedro. But yeah the Sox I think have actually in some ways become like the Yankees themselves. The high payrolls, big name FAs, etc. I still do like the city of Boston and its people by and large but their sports fans are some of the most obnoxious in sports.

[Oriole1940]

Just browsing any AL East teams forums, or reading comments during games from other fans, Showalter seems to get a whole load of hate from opposing teams fans. I thought that perhaps it was because the O's are good again, but I really don't think that is the reason. Its totally possible I might have missed something and the answer is obvious, but there are so many scathing comments about Buck from other teams fans and I honestly don't know why.

I can think of several things, not the least of which is the general hate filled society we are living in, with prejudice and chaos firmly in control.