Roch: O's don't like Penn's attitude

[Cavspider]

Hayden Penn. You guys put him on a pedestal and I think he must read too much about himself.

My opinion of what I have read is that Penn got permission to skip riding the bus with everyone else and drive himself. (Manager says, ok kid, rope to hang yourself, want to be a loner, be responsible...) Penn did not forget his bag, he left it for someone else to take to the game! For emphasis, HE LEFT HIS BAG FOR SOMEONE ELSE TO TAKE, HE DID NOT FORGET IT! Sounds like someone is getting too big for his britches if you ask me. Sounds like someone thinks he has some sort of entitlement.

Kids from the minors dont get others to take their gear here and there like they are stars do they? Sounds like an attitude problem that likely is more pronounced than just this one incident. Something the staff wants to deal with before it gets worse. Something the staff wants him to do is want it, not expect an entitlement because everyone says he will be in the majors sooner than later.

The kid is a kid. He needs to mature and realize hard work brings out the most in those with talent. Talent only goes so far with a poor attitude of entitlement.

Anyway, the bag wasnt forgotten. It was intentionally left behind IMO by both Penn AND the O's. Is it a big deal? Lets hope not. If it is a big deal, it is Penn's fault.

Malike, I believe your interpretation is correct. I said the same thing earlier in this post quoted above but think it got glossed over. O's made it a lesson to be learned IMO.

[Malike]

I totally agree Cavs, and sorry that I missed that post.

[Guest rochester]

Guys I think Penn just got caught by a seemingly tighter operation being run this year. I think no mention of things like this might have beeen standard operating practice for a long while with the O's. Sammy and Flanny sent a shot over all the players bow. They are saying You guys are professionals , act like it and take care of your business. Penn was in the doghouse yesterday. But a good coaches doghouse is easy to get in and with good performance and taking care of business pretty easy to get out of. I personally think we are making way to much out of next to nothing.

I wonder what Earl would do if a young guy left his bag..drove to get it and told noone that he was going to be late...even better, what would Frank R (kangaroo court) and the like do?

[DrungoHazewood]

I wonder what Earl would do if a young guy left his bag..drove to get it and told noone that he was going to be late...even better, what would Frank R (kangaroo court) and the like do?

Probably yell at him a little, make him do something silly in the kangaroo court, and move on. Neither Earl nor Frank got to be winning major league managers by blacklisting guys who forgot an equipment bag in spring training.

[cindyluvsbrady]

Poor Hayden....I dont think he shoulde be crucified!!:002_scry:

[Guest rochester]

Probably yell at him a little, make him do something silly in the kangaroo court, and move on. Neither Earl nor Frank got to be winning major league managers by blacklisting guys who forgot an equipment bag in spring training.

Drungo....there ya go, EXACTLY... let Sammy yell...let Millar and the boys abuse him a bit and let it go! I still say let him pitch his way up north..throw him out to the wolves and see how he does.... Most will think this bizarre but... doing letting the boys have their way with him may make him feel like part of the team and not worry about whether he will end up in B'more or Norfolk...nothing would make me happier than to have been completely wrong about his future.

Cindy - he is not being crucified, just when we all forget that he is 22 we get frustrated with his progress...nothing would make everyone happy if he would gain a spot instead of Trachshel (sp?)

[Hank Scorpio]

Yeah, but you weren't being paid six figures to do that. I presume.

Hell, I did it pro-boner.

Uh, bono. Whatever.

[HoodGuy007]

Malike, I believe your interpretation is correct. I said the same thing earlier in this post quoted above but think it got glossed over. O's made it a lesson to be learned IMO.

"Forgotten", or otherwise, there are people called equipment managers who are supposed to take care of these things. They are paid, just like Hayden is...and believe it or not, it is their job to make sure everyone has their stuff... it's not that he has a big head, he just knows the way things work generally. Sometimes, it doesn't work out properly.

The next time you forget something, like your cell phone or a school report, and it makes you late because you had to go back for it, remember how you guys are trashing him for having a big head.

[davearm]

"Forgotten", or otherwise, there are people called equipment managers who are supposed to take care of these things. They are paid, just like Hayden is...and believe it or not, it is their job to make sure everyone has their stuff... it's not that he has a big head, he just knows the way things work generally. Sometimes, it doesn't work out properly.

The next time you forget something, like your cell phone or a school report, and it makes you late because you had to go back for it, remember how you guys are trashing him for having a big head.

That's a pretty huge assumption on your part.

Between the major and minor leaguers, there are well over 100 ballplayers in camp. You can be sure that they don't all have equipment managers toting their bags around for them.

In fact, I'd say it's probably more likely that none of them do.

I'd guess every guy is responsible for schlepping his own gear from the clubhouse to the bus during the springtime.

It's also curious that a guy like Penn isn't riding the bus with the rest of the fellas. I wonder how common that sort of thing is.

[DrungoHazewood]

I don't blame you for being dubious. I kept dismissing the feeling all week while I watched him go through his processes on the field, but I finally just admitted it to myself. Who knows. I am likely wrong, but I stick by my assertion that I didn't like the look on his face or the way he "interacted" with his teammates. He didn't look like a jerk. He looked intimidated.

Maybe it's just a case of getting comfortable. Not everyone is a gregarious, outgoing person, and not every 22-year-old kid immediately feels at ease with a bunch of older guys he's trying to beat out for a job. For some people confidence comes with success, not the other way around.

Not everybody is a type A personality, although scouts have a strong bias for them (maybe for good reason).

[Flosman]

I don't blame you for being dubious. I kept dismissing the feeling all week while I watched him go through his processes on the field, but I finally just admitted it to myself. Who knows. I am likely wrong, but I stick by my assertion that I didn't like the look on his face or the way he "interacted" with his teammates. He didn't look like a jerk. He looked intimidated.

I think you could have something there. For RZNJ being a HS star and success at lower levels would not shield him from confidence problems. In fact it can make them worse. Alot of players in sports go through some confidence issues when the finally get to a level of competition that they are not just head and shoulders above the competition. A guy that is a star in HS is simply able to blow away the players at that level, opponents can not make you pay for mistakes that you make. It is a very different feeling when the guys on the other side can and do make you pay for mistakes. The guys that are going to make it figure it out, put it can take a little time. Something has been going on with the guy for a while now, the step between AAA and the majors is big but he should be better than he has shown. The guys at AAA can play and if he was throwing meatballs down there he would not have had the success that he had.

[Frobby]

Maybe it's just a case of getting comfortable. Not everyone is a gregarious, outgoing person, and not every 22-year-old kid immediately feels at ease with a bunch of older guys he's trying to beat out for a job. For some people confidence comes with success, not the other way around.

Not everybody is a type A personality, although scouts have a strong bias for them (maybe for good reason).

Well, if you read Loewen's interviews, he admits that in prior years he was very reticent to talk with coaches and veteran players. And we've heard the same about Bedard in past years. This is not unusual and it is just part of the maturation process.

[Cokeman]

My 2 Cents

Everyone keeps losing focus re: the equipment bag issue. The problem had nothing at all to do with him forgetting the bag or choosing to drive up on his own. The problem was that he did not inform anyone in mgmt once he realized his error and knew he wasn't going to make it to the game prior to the deadline. That isn't very smart and is the type of thing that gets under a manager's skin in a heartbeat.

I watched Penn rather closely while I was down in ST and I didn't really like what I saw. He looks scared and ill at ease just walking around the field. Most of the young guys talk to each other a lot while they are stretching, walking from the back field, running, etc... I can honestly say that I never saw Penn say a single word to anyone the entire week I was there. He had an almost pained expression on his face.

I think you guys are reading this "attitude" issue wrong. I don't think the Orioles think he is a Matt Riley-type (too big for his britches). I think they are worried that he is overwhelmed and that he doesn't really trust his coaches to talk with them.

I have to admit that not calling Perlozzo (or someone on the mgmt staff) was quite strange. From his comments it was obvious that he knew he wasn't going to make it in time to stretch. It was also obvious that he knew that it would be an issue (anyone who has played any ball knows that). I don't think he didn't call mgmt to let them know what was going on because he is full of himself. I think he didn't call them because he was scared that it would affect his chances. That is kind of worrisome because it is so silly and speaks a lot to his mindset. Before anyone types "well, it did affect his chances", it wouldn't have affected anything IF HE HAD CALLED. It wasn't the action, it was the reaction.

I have hopes for the guy, but I think he has a serious confidence issue. He doesn't think he belongs IMHO. If that is true, he will continue to get chewed up and spit out regardless of his talent.

If you read the article about Loewen that was posted in another thread, your observations of Penn sound a lot like what Loewen went through...even so far as other players feeling like Loewen was arrogant because of his lack of interaction on and off the field.

I don't know if anyone has tried or not, but it certainly looks like one of the O's veteran pitchers needs to take Penn under his wing and give him some support and guidance.

[Sports Guy]

If you read the article about Loewen that was posted in another thread, your observations of Penn sound a lot like what Loewen went through...even so far as other players feeling like Loewen was arrogant because of his lack of interaction on and off the field.

I was going to say the same thing.

While this isn't Penn's first ST, he knows he disappointed last year and maybe he just isn't comfortable around these guys.

He does need someone to talk to him and tell him to loosen up.

This is probably something most young players go through at some point.

[Flosman]

I agree with this and it makes sense. However, last September was not a case of Penn getting beat with his best stuff and having to make adjustments. He was just flat out awful. I could see his confidence being shattered if he had the same stuff and command he had in AAA and was getting bombed but I don't think that was the case. He had no curve, no fastball command, and was just not good. In that regard, and from quotes he made at the end of the year, I certainly got the feeling that he knows he has what it takes to succeed in the majors and he just needs to get back to the way he was throwing the ball in the minors.

RZNJ, I kind of agree with you. But I think VATech has a point also. Penn for the first time in his career is at a level where he won't have success unless the is at the top of his game. In a players mind this can lead to him thinking he has to do more than he did in the past to have success. You know throw a harder, have a little more bite on the curve, oversell the change. When really all he has to do is make his pitches and learn what ML hitters take advantage of. When a pitcher tries to hard he might get his pitches up or striaghten out his FB. I personaaly think he will be fine and will be in the rotation to stay before the all-star break. I think he just is still getting comfortable and the confidence will come.