Gausman and Wieters

[Bahama O's Fan]

So you are saying Buck doesn't know how to properly evaluate a catchers performance? Because that is my take away from all of the Wieters bashing.

Do you believe that sometimes Buck can have a stubborn streak and stick with a player believing they can "turn it around"?

[Larry18]

Do you believe that sometimes Buck can have a stubborn streak and stick with a player believing they can "turn it around"?

I think Buck is more stubborn than I am. However lets not take CERA or pitch framing data as gospel for measuring the abilities of a catcher. Pitch framing is a result of Pitchf/x data which uses cameras that are slightly offset giving a slight parallax effect of the strike zone. It still is working out umpire biases as well,which will take a while since most umpires call balls and strikes less than 40 games a season. This doesn't mean that pitch framing is garbage but it isn't far enough along in it's development for any of the analytical sites to fold it into their defensive metrics.

[Bahama O's Fan]

So forget the numbers for a second and go by sight only. Why does it "look like" Gausman pitches better with Joseph there instead of Wieters? Something to it? Sheer coincidence?

[mdbdotcom]

Joseph doesn't seem to be very good at handling pitches or throws in the dirt. He tries to catch balls with the glove, which he is terrible at, instead of blocking them, and they skip away. Maybe these plays don't go against his defensive metrics, because they are scored as errors against whoever threw the ball. By comparison, Wieters is the Mark Belanger of the bounced ball. It is rare that a wild pitch gets by him and allows a runner to advance. Maybe my "eye test" is totally off, but I feel much better watching Wieters catch, and pitchers know they can throw an off-speed pitch in the dirt without worrying about where it's going to end up.

[weams]

Do you believe that sometimes Buck can have a stubborn streak and stick with a player believing they can "turn it around"?

I do. And sometimes they do.

[Larry18]

So forget the numbers for a second and go by sight only. Why does it "look like" Gausman pitches better with Joseph there instead of Wieters? Something to it? Sheer coincidence?

No. Gausman reminds me of Jeff Samardzija, a pitcher that struggles with fast ball command which makes his best pitch useless at times. The Orioles aren't doing KG any favors with the development plan they are employing.

[DrungoHazewood]

Do you believe that sometimes Buck can have a stubborn streak and stick with a player believing they can "turn it around"?

I believe that one of the reasons why Buck's teams are overwhelmingly on board with his plan and fight hard all season long is that they know he's not going to dump them the minute they go into a 3-for-22 slump. If there's a thread on the board about how long do we have to live with XYZ, you can be sure Buck and Duquette will stick with that guy another six or eight weeks, and that's most definitely a good thing.

[DrungoHazewood]

So forget the numbers for a second and go by sight only. Why does it "look like" Gausman pitches better with Joseph there instead of Wieters? Something to it? Sheer coincidence?

The baseline assumption should be coincidence. Only strong evidence to the contrary should overcome effects we have no real proof for.

[LookitsPuck]

Starting rotation last year vs starting rotation this year. Done. Half joking. I never liked Wieters game calling. How he sets up on pitches or how he receives. So maybe there is a bias.

[Es4M11]

Starting rotation last year vs starting rotation this year. Done. Half joking. I never liked Wieters game calling. How he sets up on pitches or how he receives. So maybe there is a bias.

Last I checked (about 2 weeks ago), the starters ERA from last year to this year with Joseph behind the plate was not much different.

2014: 3.18

2015: 3.38

The games with Weiters/Lavarnway behind the plate is where the big jump comes in.

[DrungoHazewood]

Last I checked (about 2 weeks ago), the starters ERA from last year to this year with Joseph behind the plate was not much different.

2013: 3.18

2014: 3.38

The games with Weiters/Lavarnway behind the plate is where the big jump comes in.

What were the expected numbers given projections of the batters in question and the projected performance of the pitchers, adjusted for context?

[Es4M11]

What were the expected numbers given projections of the batters in question and the projected performance of the pitchers, adjusted for context?

Feel free to look all that up. My OPINION, based off the eye ball test, is that Joseph is better than Weiters behind the plate. Joseph may never be as good as Weiters was at his best, but as of right now, Caleb is the better option behind the plate, and appears to handle the pitching staff better. JMO

[Bahama O's Fan]

To me, Joseph is better according to the numbers AND according to the eyeball test as well.

[Bahama O's Fan]

And again!

[birdcrazy]

I remember last year towards the end of the year, a post about how much better the starters were with Hundley/Joseph. Wieters seemed to have it together the start of last year, but is real shell of himself now. I would like to see him play first for an extended stretch to see if he becomes a better hitter. If they can't resign davis, using a QO for Weiter to get him back to play mostly 1st and backup catch would not be a terrible idea.