Ortiz retiring, will the Orioles "honor" him?

[Moose Milligan]

I understand that WAR understates his contributions on a gut-feeling level because he's been in a ton of postseason series where he played well, and he's been in a bunch of championship parades that he helped make possible. But he's still a guy who's played fewer innings in the field in his entire 19-year career than Ryan Flaherty. He really is 20 wins worse than Edgar Martinez who can't get any traction in the HOF voting.

I know you think I probably don't get it, and while I do...I just don't care.

Sure he didn't play in the field. Of course he didn't play in the field. He took advantage of a rule that was made in the early 70's and turned it into a great career, a career that most people would kill to have. I don't understand why that should be held against him...because he didn't play in the field? Maybe it even made his teams better, allowed them to have his bat in the lineup and a decent bat and better glove at first base. Kevin Millar wasn't a wizard at first base for the 2004 team but Papi would probably have been worse (and he was -0.6 to -1.2 dWAR). Yet can you think of a better DH after Edgar Martinez? Has there ever been a DH that finished in the top 5 of MVP voting for 5 years in a row? Runner up once? He had one job and was asked to do it well. And he did it exceptionally well (please don't anyone think I'm defending him, I still think he's a grade A douche, crybaby, whiner, complainer) arguably better than any of his peers from the years that he played.

I don't care that he didn't play in the field, he wasn't asked to and it wasn't part of his daily duties (suck on that, WAR). IMO, not playing the field doesn't change the fact that he hit a ton of homers and drove in a bunch of runs and had two amazing nights in October 2004 where he slayed the Yankees in late innings. It doesn't change the fact that he transformed a lineup when he was in it. A Red Sox lineup over the years looks drastically different without him in it. He was a game changer.

323rd best player, WAR less than such and such player from 1923 who was elected by the veterans committee in 1968 because he was a hell of a guy and people liked him....I get it man, I understand the arguments. And I just don't care.

[TonySoprano]

But in places like Minneapolis (June 18), Toronto (Sept. 11), Baltimore (Sept. 22), St. Petersburg (Sept. 25) and especially the Bronx (Sept. 29), the thought “What should we do for Big Papi?” has probably at least crossed the minds of their sales and marketing departments.

Outside of writing his charity one fat check, I’m begging them:

Do nothing.

If you think I’m sounding Bah-Humbuggy with this “get off my lawn” attitude about Ortiz’ farewell, I hear you and I confess that I do wish you’d move back a couple of feet and step onto the sidewalk.

It was probably being around for the Mariano Rivera farewell in 2013 and the Derek Jeter farewell in 2014 that left me gagging about the overkill and over-dramatization of these kinds of relentless sendoffs, and the accompanying circus with its distinct whiff of commercial overkill.

Ortiz is hugely popular in Boston, there’s no doubt about that, but outside of New England I do not sense that there’s a groundswell of love for Ortiz any greater than there is for, say, the New England Patriots. For fans who do arrive early in an out-of-town venue that is thinking about honoring Ortiz, I can’t imagine they adore Ortiz. He has probably ruined more than one victory party in every place he’s played, and has likely spawned a generation of fans who care not for his bat flips and sluggish home run trots.

Unlike Rivera and Jeter, who never alienated anyone, even New Englanders, with their demeanor over the course of their distinguished careers, plus never had the taint of leaked positive PED tests, Ortiz has his detractors.

Still, being wary of sarcastic gift ideas and a negative reaction is not the biggest reason to avoid going whole-hog on a retirement show.

The idea that Ortiz’ goodbye will turn into an unending and oversaturated marketing event is a bigger and more legitimate concern.

source - Boston Herald

[DrungoHazewood]

I know you think I probably don't get it, and while I do...I just don't care.

Sure he didn't play in the field. Of course he didn't play in the field. He took advantage of a rule that was made in the early 70's and turned it into a great career, a career that most people would kill to have. I don't understand why that should be held against him...because he didn't play in the field? Maybe it even made his teams better, allowed them to have his bat in the lineup and a decent bat and better glove at first base. Kevin Millar wasn't a wizard at first base for the 2004 team but Papi would probably have been worse (and he was -0.6 to -1.2 dWAR). Yet can you think of a better DH after Edgar Martinez? Has there ever been a DH that finished in the top 5 of MVP voting for 5 years in a row? Runner up once? He had one job and was asked to do it well. And he did it exceptionally well (please don't anyone think I'm defending him, I still think he's a grade A douche, crybaby, whiner, complainer) arguably better than any of his peers from the years that he played.

I don't care that he didn't play in the field, he wasn't asked to and it wasn't part of his daily duties (suck on that, WAR). IMO, not playing the field doesn't change the fact that he hit a ton of homers and drove in a bunch of runs and had two amazing nights in October 2004 where he slayed the Yankees in late innings. It doesn't change the fact that he transformed a lineup when he was in it. A Red Sox lineup over the years looks drastically different without him in it. He was a game changer.

323rd best player, WAR less than such and such player from 1923 who was elected by the veterans committee in 1968 because he was a hell of a guy and people liked him....I get it man, I understand the arguments. And I just don't care.

I know your viewpoint will be overwhelming with the BBWAA and mine will be irrelevant. All that will matter is that Ortiz was a very good hitter with a clutch reputation who almost wrote the articles for the writers for 20 years.

[Stotle]

I know your viewpoint will be overwhelming with the BBWAA and mine will be irrelevant. All that will matter is that Ortiz was a very good hitter with a clutch reputation who almost wrote the articles for the writers for 20 years.

To be fair, you willingly shut off the analytical side of your brain when discussing the Orioles from time to time, noting you are enjoying being a fan and not overthinking it. I don't see why you are challenging another fan of the game doing the same thing.

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[TouchemAll]

Baseball gave Cal a significant farewell tour.

Jeter and Rivera both got farewells from the Orioles.

If we give that turd Ortiz anything other than a fastball in the back in his final game at Camden yards I will be extremely disappointed but given the way baseball and ESPN work now, we will probably be forced to give him the key to the city because he plays for the "sawks".

Thoughts? Honestly, I'd give him a bill for the bullpen phone as a parting gift. Maybe a frame to put it in. That's it.

Yea let's give him the phone he bashed off the dugout wall. :rofl:

[SteveO]

I say we do the decent, respectable and politically correct thing and honor the man by giving him something he does not currently own.

A glove.

[DrungoHazewood]

To be fair, you willingly shut off the analytical side of your brain when discussing the Orioles from time to time, noting you are enjoying being a fan and not overthinking it. I don't see why you are challenging another fan of the game doing the same thing.

- Shut off is probably too extreme. I will look for positive outcomes and rationale for why decisions might have been made.

- I never said Ortiz was an undeserving HOFer. I think one of my recent posts said that he led his peer group in extra credit above and beyond pure value metrics. I used to think that postseason play should be of minimal consideration for things like the Hall, but now that we play a month of postseason games and individuals can compile almost an entire extra season's worth of numbers in October you have to credit that, and maybe add a multiplier since all those games are high-leverage with respect to championships.

- My Oriole biases should have nothing to do with the truth. If I advocate keeping Adam Jones because he's a great guy who leads the team and does awesome stuff off the field the fans recognize, I wouldn't expect a Mariners or D'backs fan to agree. Nor would I necessarily advocate the same thing for another team.

- I don't like David Ortiz. A Sox fan could probably explain to me in great detail why he's an awesome dude. I don't care. I don't like David Ortiz.

- I often challenge people's thinking and rationales because it's interesting, and I want me and others to think through things. Not that I'm fully invested in the opposite. Like the Korean postings threads. I really want the Orioles to go sign a couple of these guys, they might be great. But I also want folks to digest that the translations are real, the hot air in KBO numbers is very great, and the risks not insubstantial.

[Es4M11]

If I happen to be at one of his last games at Camden, I will honor him with a very loud standing "BOOOO!!". The guy thinks he is bigger than the game, acts like a jerk, and just generally acts like he has no class - and has been called on this by several of his contemporaries. Ortiz is not worthy of a warm sendoff from a bitter rival on the road.

This no Jeter situation. Jeter actually deserved it. Mo Rivera, too. Ortiz not so much.

[jjnono]

I say we do the decent, respectable and politically correct thing and honor the man by giving him something he does not currently own.

A glove.

Perfect! Can it have all thumbs?

[Slappy]

We should present him with a dugout phone.

[mrpennybags]

Random note; I was at Fenway for Big Papi 500 home run day. They had kids spell out '500' in the outfield, a guest appearance from Pedro and they gave Ortiz some fancy boots and a weird-looking SUV.

[MDtransplant757]

I say we do the decent, respectable and politically correct thing and honor the man by giving him something he does not currently own.

A glove.

Hehehehehehe. I'd throw one at him gleefully

[DrungoHazewood]

Random note; I was at Fenway for Big Papi 500 home run day. They had kids spell out '500' in the outfield, a guest appearance from Pedro and they gave Ortiz some fancy boots and a weird-looking SUV.

I was at Manny Ramirez' 500 home run day at OPACY and it tested my faith in humanity.

[weams]

To be fair, you willingly shut off the analytical side of your brain when discussing the Orioles from time to time, noting you are enjoying being a fan and not overthinking it. I don't see why you are challenging another fan of the game doing the same thing.

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I have not seen that Drungo does that at all. Though he does support the Orioles as a fan. I think he calls them like he sees them. Much like you do.

[Can_of_corn]

I have not seen that Drungo does that at all. Though he does support the Orioles as a fan. I think he calls them like he sees them. Much like you do.

It's the way to be.