Dan Duquette is not shocked by anything. The Numbers that some pitchers got were "Staggering"

[BohKnowsBmore]

An uniformed and "shocked" GM is not communicating effective expectations to the owner. Just saying.

The point of the thread is that nobody is "shocked."

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[Frobby]

Frobby I think you put more intelligence in your response than my snarky post required :-)

My point basically the straight negative reaction to any little thing as if we're still rooting for a perennial loser.

I agree DD should not be surprised by the pitching market. I don't agree that there is some huge propaganda machine he is a cog in that is trying to fool fans.

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I've made your point many times about giving some deference to a management team that has won, and not treating them as perennial losers who deserve to have every little decision questioned. That said, I'm worried about the direction of the club. And I do feel like I'm hearing a bit of BS at times. Free agent prices are what they are, and if you aren't willing to pay them, you'd better have some other strategies for building talent.

When I hear:

1. "We need to acquire a top of the rotation pitcher," followed by defining a "top of the rotation pitcher" as "a no. 1, 2 or 3 starting pitcher;"

2. DD saying he's "shocked" by the "staggering" prices;

3. Reports that Angelos doesn't want to pay for top talent because he feels it's important to maintain "family friendly" ticket prices;

Yes, that begins to sound like propaganda to me. And again, I'm OK with not paying free agent prices for starting pitchers, but if you aren't willing to do it, you need to have put yourself in a position where you've got some cheap young starters with some talent.

[DrungoHazewood]

Excellent points.

My issue with it is, he has not only traded away many good prospects, but those players aren't in the organization anymore. Had he traded for players with a couple years on their deals remaining, we wouldn't have all these holes. EVERY player he has acquired for 5-6 pitching prospects, in 3 years, are gone.

Hence my reasoning for not feeling like Duquette isn't a quality GM for a mid-market club.

You don't get multiple years of good players for Zach Davies or the Eduardo Rodriguez with the 4.75 ERA in Bowie. Or the off-the-rails versions of Arrieta and Strop. Acquiring multiple years of good players would have meant parting with guys like Bundy and Schoop and Harvey and Cisco. Or in 2012 Machado. There were plenty of conversations in early summer 2012 about trading Machado for a top pitcher, because you can't compete without a TOR pitcher, you know.

[DrungoHazewood]

Yes, that begins to sound like propaganda to me.

Imagine that. Next thing you'll tell me is that the Presidential candidates aren't all 100% serious about their carefully considered proposals, and the $3000 undercoating on my new car wasn't really necessary.

[jjnono]

Imagine that. Next thing you'll tell me is that the Presidential candidates aren't all 100% serious about their carefully considered proposals, and the $3000 undercoating on my new car wasn't really necessary.

My specific issue with Duquette is that most of what comes out of his mouth seems intended as much to distance himself from future criticism as it is to convey the intent of the organization during the off-season.

[weams]

My specific issue with Duquette is that most of what comes out of his mouth seems intended as much to distance himself from future criticism as it is to convey the intent of the organization during the off-season.

I'm not certain that he even thinks of that. I personally would not think he would care.

[Number5]

My specific issue with Duquette is that most of what comes out of his mouth seems intended as much to distance himself from future criticism as it is to convey the intent of the organization during the off-season.

I don't really get this. Lord knows there are those that criticize his every word and every move.

[jjnono]

I don't really get this. Lord knows there are those that criticize his every word and every move.

Calling a TOR pitcher a #3 in the same sentence, for example. Vague (and probably inaccurate) statements about the surprising cost of TOR FAs, for another.

[jjnono]

I'm not certain that he even thinks of that. I personally would not think he would care.

Then he IS a car salesman!!!! :smile11:

[Frobby]

Calling a TOR pitcher a #3 in the same sentence, for example. Vague (and probably inaccurate) statements about the surprising cost of TOR FAs, for another.

As I mentioned, those statements annoyed me a bit. However, in the end, I care what he does, not what he says. Right now, he has a lot more to do.

[twinedenter]

You don't get multiple years of good players for Zach Davies or the Eduardo Rodriguez with the 4.75 ERA in Bowie. Or the off-the-rails versions of Arrieta and Strop. Acquiring multiple years of good players would have meant parting with guys like Bundy and Schoop and Harvey and Cisco. Or in 2012 Machado. There were plenty of conversations in early summer 2012 about trading Machado for a top pitcher, because you can't compete without a TOR pitcher, you know.

Who said anything about a TOR starter? We haven't seen one of them in 10 years. Glad to hear you have the pulse of other GM's around the league.

It's the pattern of such trades. In 2014 alone, he traded 3 young starting pitchers, knowing full right well he had Chen and Norris going FA, after the season, for rentals or AAAA outfielders.

(Norris should have been dealt in the off-season, but that's a whole other organizational issue, spear-headed by Duquette, with the TOTAL mis-handling of Gausman and the ("Brady Theory".)

How about just a little foresight and trade one or MORE, of these prospects, for a quality player to replace what your losing and can help you this season, with a few years left on their deal? Otherwise, we pay FA money to fill holes, either to our players, available by poor management, or others potenial FA's.

The vicious cycle continues.

-Keep in mind 1 player acquired by Duquette in 2014, is still in the orgainzation. The great Garcia, who will probably be in AA. And its a wonder we have so many holes to fill.....

[Number5]

Calling a TOR pitcher a #3 in the same sentence, for example. Vague (and probably inaccurate) statements about the surprising cost of TOR FAs, for another.

Thank you for proving my point. You stated that everything he says is to avoid criticism, then in your very next post disproved your own claim.

[osfan83]

Sometimes I think I'm in an alternate reality where the Orioles have had three winning seasons in the last 18 years.

Yep, Royals suck over that time period too, that GM needs to go!

[Ohfan67]

DD has been the GM for 18 years?

Wow!

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No, but you may have missed the part where Andy MacPhail built the core of the team.

[awannabegeek]

No, but you may have missed the part where Andy MacPhail built the core of the team.

No I didn't, but what exactly is your point besides being negative?

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