Regular Season Lineup

[Bahama O's Fan]

Could tonight's lineup be out regular season lineup?

Manny Machado 3B

Adam Jones CF

Chris Davis 1B

Mark Trumbo RF

Pedro Alvarez DH

J.J. Hardy SS

Jonathan Schoop 2B

Hyun Soo Kim LF

Caleb Joseph C

[Tx Oriole]

Could tonight's lineup be out regular season lineup?

Manny Machado 3B

Adam Jones CF

Chris Davis 1B

Mark Trumbo RF

Pedro Alvarez DH

J.J. Hardy SS

Jonathan Schoop 2B

Hyun Soo Kim LF

Caleb Joseph C

Maybe so.

[Sessh]

I don't know... Trumbo at cleanup and Jones second? Interesting.

[ChuckS]

I believe Buck has said he doesn't want Kim batting towards the top of the lineup early in the season so I could see this being the opening day lineup considering he is a slave to the R-L-R-L formation. I prefer Hardy down in the order and Schoop is a guy I can see moving up in the lineup as the season goes with Trumbo or maybe Alvarez moving down.

I think what would be ideal if Kim proves he can hit:

1. Machado ®

2. Kim (L)

3. Jones ®

4. Davis (L)

5. Trumbo ®

6. Alvarez (L)

7. Schoop ®

8. Wieters (S)

9. Hardy ®

[Sessh]

I believe Buck has said he doesn't want Kim batting towards the top of the lineup early in the season so I could see this being the opening day lineup considering he is a slave to the R-L-R-L formation. I prefer Hardy down in the order and Schoop is a guy I can see moving up in the lineup as the season goes with Trumbo or maybe Alvarez moving down.

I think what would be ideal if Kim proves he can hit:

1. Machado ®

2. Kim (L)

3. Jones ®

4. Davis (L)

5. Trumbo ®

6. Alvarez (L)

7. Schoop ®

8. Wieters (S)

9. Hardy ®

Yeah, I have pretty much the same thing except the bottom three. I would put Schoop in the nine hole just because he can run faster than Hardy and in a 9-1-2 inning, I think it works better that way. I think it would look better without Trumbo, though. There's too many strikeouts in this lineup, so I hope Rickard can steal Trumbo's job and I hope Kim does well. In that case, I'd have it:

1. Rickard

2. Kim

3. Machado

4. Davis

5. Jones

6. Alvarez

7. Hardy

8. Wieters/Joseph

9. Schoop

[Sessh]

That occurred to me, but ...... Machado, Jones, and Davis all have good speed, and Trumbo is slow (as are both Alvarez and Hardy in the 5th and 6th positions after Trumbo.)

There are obviously other factors besides that to consider when making the lineup, but that is one of them.

Indeed, but my concern was all the low OBP people at the top of the order. I guess it can't be helped, though. From the 2-5 spots in the lineup, there's 450-500 strikeouts there. That's the one glaring problem I see with this lineup. Too many K's, too many low BA's, too many low OBP's which will likely lead to more games like last year where we strand 10 runners a game and lose 2-1 because everyone is trying to hit home runs when all we need is a single. The Orioles, offensively, are very one dimensional. This is why we need Kim and Rickard to do well.

[ChuckS]

Indeed, but my concern was all the low OBP people at the top of the order. I guess it can't be helped, though. From the 2-5 spots in the lineup, there's 450-500 strikeouts there. That's the one glaring problem I see with this lineup. Too many K's, too many low BA's, too many low OBP's which will likely lead to more games like last year where we strand 10 runners a game and lose 2-1 because everyone is trying to hit home runs when all we need is a single. The Orioles, offensively, are very one dimensional. This is why we need Kim and Rickard to do well.

Adam Jones doesn't walk, but his OBP is pretty average (driven by a good BA). I have no problem with him in the two spot to start the season. You want your best hitters getting as many at bats as possible.

[ChuckS]

Yeah, I have pretty much the same thing except the bottom three. I would put Schoop in the nine hole just because he can run faster than Hardy and in a 9-1-2 inning, I think it works better that way. I think it would look better without Trumbo, though. There's too many strikeouts in this lineup, so I hope Rickard can steal Trumbo's job and I hope Kim does well. In that case, I'd have it:

1. Rickard

2. Kim

3. Machado

4. Davis

5. Jones

6. Alvarez

7. Hardy

8. Wieters/Joseph

9. Schoop

If Rickard is able to steal Trumbo's job that means we made a ten million dollar mistake on a guy we expected to be a MOO bat. That's would be bad. Kim is the guy Rickard would be replacing in the lineup if he replaces anyone IMO. I don't think Schoop should be hitting behind Wieters or Schoop. As I previously stated, you want your better hitters getting more at bats than your poorer ones.

[Sessh]

Adam Jones doesn't walk, but his OBP is pretty average (driven by a good BA). I have no problem with him in the two spot to start the season. You want your best hitters getting as many at bats as possible.

I see your point. However, Jones has an OBP around .310 the last two seasons and hopefully, he hits better than .269 this year.

[Sessh]

If Rickard is able to steal Trumbo's job that means we made a ten million dollar mistake on a guy we expected to be a MOO bat. That's would be bad. Kim is the guy Rickard would be replacing in the lineup if he replaces anyone IMO. I don't think Schoop should be hitting behind Wieters or Schoop. As I previously stated, you want your better hitters getting more at bats than your poorer ones.

Wouldn't be the first time we made an expensive mistake. Jimenez was one such situation (so far) and Davis might turn out to be as well. Seattle couldn't get rid of Trumbo fast enough and he is not a good defender in right field. I'm not sure he will stick. Kim might not either, but I have more hope for him than the guy who didn't stick in Arizona or Seattle before coming here.

Otherwise, I guess it's just preference. I'd rather have someone with decent speed in the nine hole with the top of the order coming up behind him. I don't want a base clogger hitting ninth.

[ChuckS]

Wouldn't be the first time we made an expensive mistake. Jimenez was one such situation (so far) and Davis might turn out to be as well. Seattle couldn't get rid of Trumbo fast enough and he is not a good defender in right field. I'm not sure he will stick. Kim might not either, but I have more hope for him than the guy who didn't stick in Arizona or Seattle before coming here.

Otherwise, I guess it's just preference. I'd rather have someone with decent speed in the nine hole with the top of the order coming up behind him. I don't want a base clogger hitting ninth.

So are you hoping we made an expensive mistake? Because that's what it would take for Rickard to replace Trumbo in the lineup.

To your last point, I don't think that is statistically significant. We are also talking about replacing a good base runner (Hardy) that has below average speed with one that has average speed. I rather have Schoop get an extra 20 to 30 at bats (or whatever it is) over a full season. That will matter more in the end.

[Sessh]

So are you hoping we made an expensive mistake? Because that's what it would take for Rickard to replace Trumbo in the lineup.

To your last point, I don't think that is significantly significant. We are also talking about replacing a good base runner (Hardy) that has below average speed with one that has average speed. I rather have Schoop get an extra 20 to 30 at bats (or whatever it is) over a full season. That will matter more in the end.

"Hoping" is a strong word, but based on the facts that Trumbo isn't a good defender in the outfield and we just signed a full time DH and has been traded three times in the last three years, I am not optimistic. He was traded along with another player to us for Steve Clevenger who I wasn't aware had much trade value if any. I would be more surprised if it didn't turn out to be another mistake.

I guess you can't really argue with that, but for me personally, I would rather have a better chance for some runs when the top of the order comes around which includes having someone on base who is better able to go first to third on a single. Below average speed won't get that done very often even though he is a good base runner.

[OFFNY]

Sessh said:

 

Indeed, but my concern was all the low OBP people at the top of the order. I guess it can't be helped, though. From the 2-5 spots in the lineup, there's 450-500 strikeouts there. That's the one glaring problem I see with this lineup. Too many K's, too many low BA's, too many low OBP's which will likely lead to more games like last year where we strand 10 runners a game and lose 2-1 because everyone is trying to hit home runs when all we need is a single. The Orioles, offensively, are very one dimensional. This is why we need Kim and Rickard to do well.

 

o

 

The low team OBP is a bigger concern to me than the strikeouts. That is one reason why I wanted to get Dexter Fowler very badly.

Also, your point of the 2015 Orioles stranding runners and subsequently losing low-scoring games is well taken, but "Runners left on base" needs to be scrutinized beyond just the face value of the statistic itself.

For example, a team can score 12 runs in a game, and still have left 14 or 15 runners on base. The only way that you won't wind up with any runners left on base in an inning in which you have any base-runners at all is if you hit a home run to clear the bases just prior to making the 3rd out of the inning. You can score 6 runs in one inning, and still leave 2 or 3 runners on base in said inning.

Hence, if you look strictly at the statistic in and of itself without any further context, it can be misleading.

 

o

[ChuckS]

"Hoping" is a strong word, but based on the facts that Trumbo isn't a good defender in the outfield and we just signed a full time DH and has been traded three times in the last three years, I am not optimistic. He was traded along with another player to us for Steve Clevenger who I wasn't aware had much trade value if any. I would be more surprised if it didn't turn out to be another mistake.

I guess you can't really argue with that, but for me personally, I would rather have a better chance for some runs when the top of the order comes around which includes having someone on base who is better able to go first to third on a single. Below average speed won't get that done very often even though he is a good base runner.

I get what you are saying, but I think you are overvaluing the speed component. They have to be able to hit and get on base first. For Rickard to become a full time player this season it would take him greatly exceeding expectations or guys like Trumbo and Kim falling short of them, so I'm not hoping that happens. For Rickard, I'm just hoping for an improvement from David Lough.

[Sessh]

The low team OBP is a bigger concern to me than the strikeouts. That is one reason why I wanted to get Dexter Fowler very badly.

Also, your point of the 2015 Orioles stranding runners and subsequently losing low-scoring games is well taken, but "Runners left on base" needs to be scrutinized beyond just the face value of the statistic itself.

For example, a team can score 12 runs in a game, and still have left 14 or 15 runners on base. The only way that you won't wind up with any runners left on base in an inning in which you have any base-runners at all is if you hit a home run to clear the bases just prior to making the 3rd out of the inning. You can score 6 runs in one inning, and still leave 2 or 3 runners on base in said inning.

Hence, if you look strictly at the statistic in and of itself without any further context, it can be misleading.

Fair enough. I just remember numerous times last year where we'd load the bases on a single and two walks and no outs only for the next three guys to put up two strikeouts swinging at everything and a ground out. It seemed to happen multiple times a game last year most times. I don't think our offense was on the same page for most of last year. It was more like watching a bunch of individuals as opposed to a team. It's like situational hitting was something we were completely incapable of. We get into good scoring chances by being patient, then blow it by swinging at bad pitches instead of making the pitcher get us out. Happened all too often last year especially with either no outs or one out and couldn't get a single run across.