Would you be willing to trade Schoop and Givens for a good starting pitcher?

[Can_of_corn]

Then you should not have pointed out that I was in error in my summation of seven years of team control and I would not have that retort or this one.

I do know that the Orioles DID use the Forty and the MiLB DL for Dylan Bundy to retain team control while injured. They could have placed him on the Twenty-Five and Sixty Day Disabled him BUT that time would have counted on his service clock. There is a precedent.

But you are incorrect.

You don't actually get seven years of team control, you get 6+, and the team has to do without player for a period of time to get that.

With some players it just isn't worth the effort to get that last year as there is no guarantee that the team would even want the player once they have reached arb 3 or 4 status.

You were speaking of seven years as if it were a forgone conclusion.

[thezeroes]

But you are incorrect.

You don't actually get seven years of team control, you get 6+, and the team has to do without player for a period of time to get that.

With some players it just isn't worth the effort to get that last year as there is no guarantee that the team would even want the player once they have reached arb 3 or 4 status.

You were speaking of seven years as if it were a forgone conclusion.

Agree to dis-agree with you. 6+ is seven years in baseball contract terms. A player needs to have 6.000 years of service to become a free agent after the conclusion of that years World Series. Any thing below that sends the player into a seventh year ans most likely an expensive Arbitration Settlement. That is SEVEN Years of control IF handled correctly. You are basically saying that the Orioles do not know how to handle players and years of service but I disagree.

[Can_of_corn]

Agree to dis-agree with you. 6+ is seven years in baseball contract terms. A player needs to have 6.000 years of service to become a free agent after the conclusion of that years World Series. Any thing below that sends the player into a seventh year ans most likely an expensive Arbitration Settlement. That is SEVEN Years of control IF handled correctly. You are basically saying that the Orioles do not know how to handle players and years of service but I disagree.

I'm not saying that.

Lots of time with players the seventh year is irrelevant.

Do you think it is going to make a difference if the O's have control of Flaherty for six years or seven?

As for them making mistakes do you think that, in hindsight, they should have manipulated Schoop's time? His time as a September call-up was effectively meaningless which means the O's are going to get him for six effective seasons. So would you say they handled him incorrectly?

I will say, once again, that players such as Flaherty and Schoop show that the O's do not always prioritize getting the "seventh" year.

[thezeroes]

I'm not saying that.

Lots of time with players the seventh year is irrelevant.

Do you think it is going to make a difference if the O's have control of Flaherty for six years or seven?

As for them making mistakes do you think that, in hindsight, they should have manipulated Schoop's time? His time as a September call-up was effectively meaningless which means the O's are going to get him for six effective seasons. So would you say they handled him incorrectly?

I will say, once again, that players such as Flaherty and Schoop show that the O's do not always prioritize getting the "seventh" year.

The September Call Up was not as much of an Issue as the placement on the Twenty-Five Man Roster the following spring. Lombardozzi, Flaherty, Weeks and Casilla all could have manned second base for a month and a half but were thought to be deficient in several areas by comparison.

[Can_of_corn]

The September Call Up was not as much of an Issue as the placement on the Twenty-Five Man Roster the following spring. Lombardozzi, Flaherty, Weeks and Casilla all could have manned second base for a month and a half but were thought to be deficient in several areas by comparison.

So, was it, in your opinion, a mistake?

And would you not agree that in the case of a player like Flaherty the extra year is irrelevant?

[thezeroes]

So, was it, in your opinion, a mistake?

And would you not agree that in the case of a player like Flaherty the extra year is irrelevant?

Flaherty was a rule five player so his first year was a must to be on the Twenty-Five in some capacity. Once the clock was started for a full year there was not a lot that could be done about it. The need to get an extra year is irrelevant because of the circumstances.

[Can_of_corn]

Flaherty was a rule five player so his first year was a must to be on the Twenty-Five in some capacity. Once the clock was started for a full year there was not a lot that could be done about it. The need to get an extra year is irrelevant because of the circumstances.

They couldn't have sent him down the next year?

Please.

He has been sent down a number of times, he just hasn't stayed down long enough to get the extra year.

They decided that getting the extra year wasn't important.

[thezeroes]

They couldn't have sent him down the next year?

Please.

He has been sent down a number of times, he just hasn't stayed down long enough to get the extra year.

They decided that getting the extra year wasn't important.

For Flaherty it was not important, for Jonathan Schoop it would have been.

For Dylan Bundy it may be important and was handled in that manner.

For T. J. McFarland it may be important and is being controlled.

For Mike Wright and Tyler Wilson it may give the seventh year with their development finished after being up and down to hone their skills.

For Kevin Gausman who is in his fourth MLB Year but only has just over two years service time it will become important if he fully develops as a front line starter.

Each case is different for various reasons. So I will agree some not so much (Flaherty) others maybe more important (Bundy, Gausman, Wilson, Wright, and McFarland)

[Can_of_corn]

I don't think they are manipulating McFarland's time, I just don't think he is talented enough to keep himself on the 25 man.

The same might be the case with Wright and Wilson (harder to tell since starters are so much more valuable than relievers)

[thezeroes]

I don't think they are manipulating McFarland's time, I just don't think he is talented enough to keep himself on the 25 man.

The same might be the case with Wright and Wilson (harder to tell since starters are so much more valuable than relievers)

Pitchers tend to need that seventh year and some cases an eighth year to finish development and become productive for a full season. I will use Chris Tillman as this example. He is in his eighth year to be on a MLB Roster and is still the remainder of this season and all of next before he can become a free agent.

[DrungoHazewood]

Pitchers tend to need that seventh year and some cases an eighth year to finish development and become productive for a full season. I will use Chris Tillman as this example. He is in his eighth year to be on a MLB Roster and is still the remainder of this season and all of next before he can become a free agent.

I think that you'll find about as many pitchers who peak the day they arrive in the major as you will pitchers who need 4, 5, 6+ years to get established.

[Natty]

No way we should trade Schoop. He has the potential to be the best second baseman in the league.

[thezeroes]

I think that you'll find about as many pitchers who peak the day they arrive in the major as you will pitchers who need 4, 5, 6+ years to get established.

When you bring the four pitch pitcher to the show and he is effective in relief using just two of the four because the other two are not fully developed the ensuing three years of options allows to both stretch them out and develop those secondary pitches while still getting the MLB Experience needed to make adjustments. Not all pitchers from the minors have fine tune their arsenal but are effective out of the bullpen..

To your point, I agree. Quality College pitchers do not need as much development as all those High School Kids that the Orioles have/had drafted.

[Malike]

Probably have to swap Givens with someone else to get a good pitcher. I'm not sure of his value with his inability to pitch to a LHB.

Sent from my SM-G935T using Tapatalk

[weams]

I don't think they are manipulating McFarland's time, I just don't think he is talented enough to keep himself on the 25 man.

The same might be the case with Wright and Wilson (harder to tell since starters are so much more valuable than relievers)

I am sure he needs something done with that knee injury. No mystery. Forget about him for now.