They All Break

[Can_of_corn]

Recovery time is supposed to be a month, but that isn't for a pitcher that throws 95.

[LA2]

8 hours ago, Sessh said:

Yup, that's more or less how a pitcher should look at footstrike. The biggest contributor to arm injuries is the arm not being up in that ready position at footstrike which means it then has to "catch up" to the body very quickly. This puts a ton of strain on both the shoulder and the elbow because in order to catch up, they must rotate forcefully and quickly. Look at these images of pitchers who have had or are having arm injuries and look at where their arm is at footstrike. It's not up. Of course, there's always exceptions, but this is exceedingly common to find in pitchers who have had arm injuries and can be, to some extent, a predictor for the future. I've not much doubt that the biggest cause of arm injuries are bad mechanics that put unnecessary stress on the arm and shoulder. Of course, such things can also cause sudden drops in velocity.

Dylan Bundy

Jordan Montgomery

Mark Prior

Shaun Marcum

Adam Wainwright

AJ Burnett

BJ Ryan

Stephen Strasburg

Hunter Harvey

Chris Ray

Yu Darvish

Joel Zumaya

Chris Carpenter

John Smoltz

 

Compare that with guys that were able to stay relatively injury free over their careers.

Justin Verlander

Nolan Ryan

Greg Maddux

Roger Clemens

I can't really think of too many guys that avoided serious arm injuries for an entire career, though. There are certainly other risk factors, but I was pretty serious about researching into this particular thing many years ago and there certainly does seem to be a high level of correlation with this and incidence or likelihood of injury. It's so common in baseball.

 

Others of note:

Kevin Gausman

Shohei Ohtani (wow is this bad looking)

Masahiro Tanaka

Chris Sale

 

This was very illuminating and enjoyable.  Thanks!

[weams]

9 hours ago, Sessh said:

Yup, that's more or less how a pitcher should look at footstrike. The biggest contributor to arm injuries is the arm not being up in that ready position at footstrike which means it then has to "catch up" to the body very quickly. This puts a ton of strain on both the shoulder and the elbow because in order to catch up, they must rotate forcefully and quickly. Look at these images of pitchers who have had or are having arm injuries and look at where their arm is at footstrike. It's not up. Of course, there's always exceptions, but this is exceedingly common to find in pitchers who have had arm injuries and can be, to some extent, a predictor for the future. I've not much doubt that the biggest cause of arm injuries are bad mechanics that put unnecessary stress on the arm and shoulder. Of course, such things can also cause sudden drops in velocity.

Dylan Bundy

Jordan Montgomery

Mark Prior

Shaun Marcum

Adam Wainwright

AJ Burnett

BJ Ryan

Stephen Strasburg

Hunter Harvey

Chris Ray

Yu Darvish

Joel Zumaya

Chris Carpenter

John Smoltz

 

Compare that with guys that were able to stay relatively injury free over their careers.

Justin Verlander

Nolan Ryan

Greg Maddux

Roger Clemens

I can't really think of too many guys that avoided serious arm injuries for an entire career, though. There are certainly other risk factors, but I was pretty serious about researching into this particular thing many years ago and there certainly does seem to be a high level of correlation with this and incidence or likelihood of injury. It's so common in baseball.

 

Others of note:

Kevin Gausman

Shohei Ohtani (wow is this bad looking)

Masahiro Tanaka

Chris Sale

 

What do they all have in common? They are pitchers. 

[Uli2001]

An incredibly unnatural motion. It's a testament to the human body that it can even withstand it for any length of time.

[Sessh]

3 hours ago, LA2 said:

This was very illuminating and enjoyable.  Thanks!

Sure! Another problem with all of this is that applying torque on the shoulder actually increases velocity while also increasing the chance of injury, so "bad" mechanics actually produce desirable results.. for awhile. Unfortunately, it also increases the chance of injury along with velocity. Elbow and shoulder injuries happen due to wear and tear over time and not from a single pitch or anything like that, so the elbow and shoulder gradually wear down until something "breaks". We also notice that velocity is often the first thing to go. This can all be summarized into something called Valgus Elbow Stress and there have been studies done on this. Here is the abstract of one such study if you wish to read it. The following four variables account for 97% percent of variance with valgus elbow stress:

• Shoulder abduction angle at instant of stride foot contact (positive correlation)
• Peak shoulder horizontal adduction angular velocity (positive correlation)
• Elbow angle at instant of peak valgus torque (negative correlation)
• Maximum shoulder external rotation torque (negative correlation)

The second point, for example, basically refers to a pitcher who takes his arm behind his body during his delivery. The arm must get to the ready position in order to throw, so it's further away from where it has to be in order to throw and must "catch up" to the right position before a throw can be made. This produces a slingshot type effect which is where the increased velocity comes from, but it's at the expense of the ligaments whose limits are exceeded over and over again with each pitch until something breaks. Plenty of the guys in the pics above do this.

There's also the thing that pitching coaches are hesitant to mess with a pitcher's mechanics for fear of "messing them up". Proper mechanics should be taught at an early age, but there's so much emphasis on velocity that this kind of stuff is facilitated. More and more pitchers are needing TJ surgeries even kids and though the success rates are decent, it's still a big problem and it starts at the little league level IMO.

[bobmc]

Chris Tillman last night, FWIW:

[Sessh]

At footstrike, his arm isn't up and he also takes his arm behind his body.

[Chavez Ravine]

Kershaw on the 10 day DL. Seeing the consulting doctor. Cobb and Manny in a package deal... or do the Dodgers become sellers?

[bobmc]

Jameson Taillon's cut hand may require dire measures (pee pee?):

 

[OFFNY]

14 minutes ago, bobmc said:

 

Jameson Taillon's cut hand may require dire measures (pee pee?):

 

o

 

 

o

[weams]

 

[O's are Legends]

18 hours ago, OFFNY said:

o

 

 

o

I still can't believe a sock with either mcdonalds or popeyes ketchup landed more than 90k in a auction.

[Frobby]

10 minutes ago, weams said:

 

If true, this is a candidate for the Marty Cordova award.   

[weams]

5 minutes ago, O's are Legends said:

I still can't believe a sock with either mcdonalds or popeyes ketchup landed more than 90k in a auction.

Gary let the cat out of the bag. 

[weams]

1 minute ago, Frobby said:

If true, this is a candidate for the Marty Cordova award.