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Time to start talking the f word

ChuckS

By ChuckS
in Orioles Talk

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maybenxtyr Hangout Veteran Council

maybenxtyr

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1 minute ago, birdwatcher55 said:

I will personally start a fundraiser if we can get him out of Baltimore in October. As for Buck, the game has passed him by. To give these two gentlemen 5 year extensions would be reckless, irresponsible and down right criminal.

I don't think you fully understand what is criminal. I have been seeing this quite a bit this week and I shake my head each time. Perhaps signing those 2 to extensions would be a mistake, but not criminal.

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billw76 Major Leaguer Cup of Coffee

billw76

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As much as I hate to say it, the organization seriously has to consider being sellers THIS trade deadline, and in the off season. This team as constructed, especially the pitching staff is not going to win the division, let alone the World Series.

I'd try to find the best deal I can for Machado, Jones, Brach, Miley, Trumbo, Smith, Kim, and Castillo. Britton and O'Day should be moved once healthy, and if I can find someone interested in Tillman, Hardy or Ubaldo I'd move them too. 

I'd keep Bundy, Gausman, Givens, Schoop, and Mancini that way there is still some decent ML talent still left on the roster.

 

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Can_of_corn Hangout Grand Counsel

Can_of_corn

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1 minute ago, Bird Dog said:

Smith and Kim are gone, I think. Castillo's on a one year contract, Tillmon's a free agent, Hardy has a buyout (if he doesn't vest at 600PA's) and Ubaldo's contract is up....I think I'm right on these.

Castillo has a player option.

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24fps Hangout Grand Counsel

24fps

Posted
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2 hours ago, birdwatcher55 said:

I will personally start a fundraiser if we can get him out of Baltimore in October. As for Buck, the game has passed him by. To give these two gentlemen 5 year extensions would be reckless, irresponsible and down right criminal.

Also recognition of success that roughly half the current Orioles fanbase never saw up until their hiring.  Don't forget that part.

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tntoriole Hangout Grand Counsel

tntoriole

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41 minutes ago, Camden_yardbird said:

Got to wonder how a fire sale sits with Trumbo, Jones and Davis.  They are losing now bit I am guessing they would rather see a retool rather than a year down.  For Trumbo and Davis I am sure they signed looking at a contender.

This for me would fall in the category of "too bad, you should have played better." 

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24fps Hangout Grand Counsel

24fps

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41 minutes ago, Camden_yardbird said:

Got to wonder how a fire sale sits with Trumbo, Jones and Davis.  They are losing now bit I am guessing they would rather see a retool rather than a year down.  For Trumbo and Davis I am sure they signed looking at a contender.

Perhaps Davis was looking at a rapidly aging owner with more money than good sense.

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bird watcher Major Leaguer

bird watcher

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23 hours ago, JohnD said:

You sure?  Kevin Gausman was a top 5 draft pick.

That puts a lot of faith in a scouting department that has a lot of swings and misses.

If you could choose now to have the Orioles draft at number 3 or 20 which would you choose?  I'd guess the odds are better at 3. There will be misses for sure but Bundy and Wieters turned out OK no?  We get neither of them drafting at 20. 

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bird watcher Major Leaguer

bird watcher

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15 hours ago, JohnD said:

None of them drafted by the current front office.  And all are in their sixth year at least in the organization.  If not having moved on as a FA.  Tell me about the impact players drafted since then.  Anyone who is projecting as a regular big leaguer, much less an All Star who can be built around by a playoff team?

Other than being six or more "Draft years" ago what else did Bundy, Machado, and Wieters have in common that the more recent first rounders didn't? Top 5 picks. 

5 of the 6 top 5 picks have contributed in a pretty big way to a playoff contending roster over the past 5-6 years. Two of them have been legit all stars. 

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JohnD Major Leaguer

JohnD

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I don't know how to be more blunt: right now you can't argue the scouting department has done a terrible job of replenishing the farm system through the draft.  Lots of other teams find talent outside the top 5.  Why don't the Orioles?  Everyone in the minors who is playing well still have enormous question marks attached.  Maybe it's the minor league coaching, either way, whats happening right now should give everyone pause that this organization is capable of leading a rebuild that even I agree is probably coming due.

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glenn__davis Hangout Grand Counsel

glenn__davis

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13 minutes ago, JohnD said:

I don't know how to be more blunt: right now you can't argue the scouting department has done a terrible job of replenishing the farm system through the draft.  Lots of other teams find talent outside the top 5.  Why don't the Orioles?  Everyone in the minors who is playing well still have enormous question marks attached.  Maybe it's the minor league coaching, either way, whats happening right now should give everyone pause that this organization is capable of leading a rebuild that even I agree is probably coming due.

I think the scouting department has been OK under Rajisch.  Not world beaters, but I'd disagree that they've been terrible.  The bigger problem has been the surrendering of draft picks, particularly to sign mediocre players (Gallardo, Jimenez, etc.).  In 2014 our 1st pick was in the 3rd round.  There's only so much you can do with that type of thing.  And the 4th round pick, who maybe one of the more talented guys, decided to play basketball instead.

Gausman, Mancini, Hunter Harvey, Sisco, Tanner Scott, Mountcastle, Mullins, Sedlock, Akin, Austin Hays, all are guys that have been drafted recently that look to have some good potential, and only Gausman was a top 5 pick.  There's a lot of lesser guys too that look like they could be role players or useful pieces.

Josh Hart certainly looks like a bust, and DJ Stewart had a disappointing start but is showing some signs.

Again I'm not saying they've been world beaters, but this new regime has done an OK job with what they've had to work with.  Better than the Joe Jordan era, IMO, despite the fact that that era had better results due to consistently having top 5 picks.

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FlipTheBird All-Star

FlipTheBird

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1 hour ago, glenn__davis said:

I think the scouting department has been OK under Rajisch.  Not world beaters, but I'd disagree that they've been terrible.  The bigger problem has been the surrendering of draft picks, particularly to sign mediocre players (Gallardo, Jimenez, etc.).  In 2014 our 1st pick was in the 3rd round.  There's only so much you can do with that type of thing.  And the 4th round pick, who maybe one of the more talented guys, decided to play basketball instead.

Gausman, Mancini, Hunter Harvey, Sisco, Tanner Scott, Mountcastle, Mullins, Sedlock, Akin, Austin Hays, all are guys that have been drafted recently that look to have some good potential, and only Gausman was a top 5 pick.  There's a lot of lesser guys too that look like they could be role players or useful pieces.

Josh Hart certainly looks like a bust, and DJ Stewart had a disappointing start but is showing some signs.

Again I'm not saying they've been world beaters, but this new regime has done an OK job with what they've had to work with.  Better than the Joe Jordan era, IMO, despite the fact that that era had better results due to consistently having top 5 picks.

Part of the reason for that was that we also signed Cruz, who was paramount to the club's success that year. No one ever likes to mention that.

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glenn__davis Hangout Grand Counsel

glenn__davis

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20 minutes ago, FlipTheBird said:

Part of the reason for that was that we also signed Cruz, who was paramount to the club's success that year. No one ever likes to mention that.

Agreed, and you are correct in that instance - but on the whole, I think it's clear that they don't value draft picks the way that many (myself included) think they should.  Giving up a pick to sign Gallardo was just awful.

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