The saddest part of being a fan (for me)

[Frobby]

For me, the saddest part of being a fan is watching players who were huge contributors to your team decline to the point where they can't help the team anymore.   

Reading the board, there seem to be a lot of fans for whom the players are just playing units who are fungible, to be discarded without a second thought when their parts wear out.     But I've never seen them that way.    I see them as people, who have worked very hard to perfect their craft, who have close relationships to their teammates, and who in certain cases have contributed a tremendous amount to the success of the team over a considerable period of time.

That's why it's killing me to watch Chris Tillman and J.J. Hardy this year.    I want so badly for them to rally and put together a season where, even if they're not as good as they used to be, they can still be seen as contributing to the team.    And nearly halfway through the season, I know that it's not likely to happen, and that at the end of the year, it will be time to part ways with them.    And yes, I know it's possible that the team would be better off parting ways with them right now, instead of waiting until the end of the year.    That still could happen, especially with Tillman if he can't find a way to get more hitters out.     But as I said, I really hope it doesn't come to that. I'll be watching watching Tilly today and rooting for him to find a way to keep the Rays at bay.    And if he can't, I won't be mad.   I'll just be sad.    I'll never forget that he and J.J. were huge contributors to an enjoyable period of Orioles baseball, who were good teammates and did everything they could to help the team win.     They'll never be just worn out playing units to me.

[Can_of_corn]

For me it is watching the team make obvious mistakes in regards to personnel, to watch them back themselves into a corner over a period of years with one avoidable contract after another.  To know the current construct is unsound and to just sit and wait for it to tumble down and to wonder how long it will take to rebuild.

[Frobby]

5 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

For me it is watching the team make obvious mistakes in regards to personnel, to watch them back themselves into a corner over a period of years with one avoidable contract after another.  To know the current construct is unsound and to just sit and wait for it to tumble down and to wonder how long it will take to rebuild.

To me that's not sad, it's just poor management.    

I hope you didn't interpret anything I said in the OP as suggesting that the front office should make decisions based on sentiment.     There's a difference between me being sad about a declining player and a GM making an irrational decision because of sentiment.    

That said, I thought the Hardy deal was OK when it was signed.    We had three players with expiring contracts (Cruz, Markakis and Hardy), and of the three, I thought Hardy was the one who was fairly likely to earn his next deal and most important to keep.   That judgment was wrong, in hindsight, but supportable at the time.    

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, Frobby said:

To me that's not sad, it's just poor management.    

I hope you didn't interpret anything I said in the OP as suggesting that the front office should make decisions based on sentiment.     There's a difference between me being sad about a declining player and a GM making an irrational decision because of sentiment.    

That said, I thought the Hardy deal was OK when it was signed.    We had three players with expiring contracts (Cruz, Markakis and Hardy), and of the three, I thought Hardy was the one who was fairly likely to earn his next deal and most important to keep.   That judgment was wrong, in hindsight, but supportable at the time.    

Nope.  I didn't write a rebuttal to your piece.  That wasn't my intent.

I find it sad when folks make what appear to me to be easily avoidable mistakes.

A young person I am acquainted with moved in with her boyfriend and got a dog.  I could see from a mile away that it was a series of unwise decisions.  I was still sad when she had to give the dog away after the relationship failed.

[Ohfan67]

5 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

Just win, baby!   Players get old.  I feel sad for a 21 year old with a great future who hurts his arm and never has a career.   Hardy and Tillman have made many millions and had nice careers even if they never play another game.

The only sad part for me is that they aren't helping my team win games. 

I agree with the bolded sentiment. I don't feel sad for Hardy at all. He's played in the bigs for 13 years, made all start teams, won gold gloves, and made 78+ million dollars. I feel bad, but not sad, for Tillman. Two years ago it looked like he was going to get a big pay day as a free agent. Now it looks like he may bounce around MLB for two or so years and then be done. But I don't feel sad for either one of them. Even Tillman should be set financially for life and they are both relatively young men with lots of non-baseball lives ahead of them. 

[Frobby]

16 minutes ago, Ohfan67 said:

I agree with the bolded sentiment. I don't feel sad for Hardy at all. He's played in the bigs for 13 years, made all start teams, won gold gloves, and made 78+ million dollars. I feel bad, but not sad, for Tillman. Two years ago it looked like he was going to get a big pay day as a free agent. Now it looks like he may bounce around MLB for two or so years and then be done. But I don't feel sad for either one of them. Even Tillman should be set financially for life and they are both relatively young men with lots of non-baseball lives ahead of them. 

I'm not so much sad for Tillman and Hardy, as I am sad for myself as a fan.     It's a matter of my connection with the player.    Seeing Vlad Guerrero as a shadow of his former self didn't make me sad in the same way as Tillman and Hardy do.

[wildcard]

JJ Hardy will be 35 next.  He has earned 78M in his career.  He will have a 2 year old son.  He can travel the world if he wants.   Do what ever he wants.  What is sad about that?

I can see being a little nostalgic for  his good years with the O's but sad.... no, not really.

Tillman is only 29.  I don't think he quits after this year.  He will have to take a step back.  He may have to learn a new way to be effective.  But I think he will find a way to pitch next year.   Either he rehabs to get more arm strength or maybe he becomes a reliever.  

 

[mdbdotcom]

I was conflicted over re-signing Hardy. My head said no, but my heart said yes. And though I advocated here that we not re-sign him, I was happy when we did. Strange, I know.

Now, I am less sad about Hardy's decline and imminent departure than I am concerned about the team's future. I am reminded of an off-season conversation I had with the O's PR director at the time.

Me: "Will the O's lineup be sponsored by Geritol next season."

He: "That Geritol lineup is going to take us to the World Series."

The "He" in that conversation was John Maroon. The conversation took place in December 1997. It's hard to imagine another 14-year period as desolate of joy as the 1998-2011 seasons were for the Orioles. I hope they figure out what they need to do and get to it so none of us has to watch a replay of those years.

[thezeroes]

I think you are not getting the point of what Frobby is trying to convey.  Nothing I can add will help in that regard. 

You seem to make players a commodity that can be exchanged, cut, demoted the same as a broker does with stocks.  Some of us fans make players into the humans that they are and therefore have a certain amount of feelings for them when expectations are not reached.  We are the ones that would like the player to play to their full potential until they retire even if we know that the aging process will not allow that to be. It is a factor into being a fan off players on a team along with seeing their faults/warts.  We tend to place these player that have has some longevity with our favorite team into a different category than rental/free agent players because we have seen what they were and want that from them again.

If that is nostalgia, I am guilty as charged.

[Can_of_corn]

31 minutes ago, thezeroes said:

I think you are not getting the point of what Frobby is trying to convey.  Nothing I can add will help in that regard. 

You seem to make players a commodity that can be exchanged, cut, demoted the same as a broker does with stocks.  Some of us fans make players into the humans that they are and therefore have a certain amount of feelings for them when expectations are not reached.  We are the ones that would like the player to play to their full potential until they retire even if we know that the aging process will not allow that to be. It is a factor into being a fan off players on a team along with seeing their faults/warts.  We tend to place these player that have has some longevity with our favorite team into a different category than rental/free agent players because we have seen what they were and want that from them again.

If that is nostalgia, I am guilty as charged.

I'd don't get emotionally attached in such a one sided relationship.  Do you think all the players view as as individual humans and not a blank faced collective fan base?  I don't really know them, they don't know me at all.  I can be superficially interested in them as items of interest but no deep connection will exist.

[Aristotelian]

Hardy and others declining is predictable and expected. What I find harder to watch is a first round draft pick with 98 mph fastball and good command seemingly entering the prime of his career simply unable to pitch. Repeatedly throwing meatballs in the zone and getting hammered. Simultaneously feeling bad for the guy but also outraged at the player for making the same mistakes over and over, and at the organization for failing to develop him. 

[tntoriole]

I understand the sentiment.   The worst experience for me was watching Brooks at the end of his career and how skills had long been gone and he essentially was benched.  I imagine Giants fans felt that way about Willie Mays when he went to the Mets and was missing routine fly balls. 

It reminds us of our own time in the sunlight of our youth and how quickly it passes us all by. 

[99ct]

2 hours ago, Frobby said:

 

That's why it's killing me to watch Chris Tillman and J.J. Hardy this year.    I want so badly for them to rally and put together a season where, even if they're not as good as they used to be, they can still be seen as contributing to the team.    And nearly halfway through the season, I know that it's not likely to happen, and that at the end of the year, it will be time to part ways with them.    And yes, I know it's possible that the team would be better off parting ways with them right now, instead of waiting until the end of the year.    That still could happen, especially with Tillman if he can't find a way to get more hitters out.     But as I said, I really hope it doesn't come to that. I'll be watching watching Tilly today and rooting for him to find a way to keep the Rays at bay.    And if he can't, I won't be mad.   I'll just be sad.    I'll never forget that he and J.J. were huge contributors to an enjoyable period of Orioles baseball, who were good teammates and did everything they could to help the team win.     They'll never be just worn out playing units to me.

Hardy had a very nice career, you cant be sad about that. Tillman, on the other hand, literally just fell off a cliff at a much younger age. Its...bizarre. Very curious to see if he can get his arm back in the offseason.

[NashLumber]

I get where Frobby is coming from. I felt that way about Brian Roberts. He was born just down the road from where I live and went to college 7 miles away for all but his senior year. When he emerged as an Orioles star, it was something to be excited about in the dark years. Then he had the concussion and back issues. O's didn't offer him a contract and he went to NY. I hated that, as he was an Oriole since being drafted and I felt a connection to the guy. Similarly, I feel bad for Reimold. He just could not stay healthy. He has no place on this team now and that's the way it should be, but it does make me sad for him. 

[Tx Oriole]

2 hours ago, Frobby said:

For me, the saddest part of being a fan is watching players who were huge contributors to your team decline to the point where they can't help the team anymore.   

Reading the board, there seem to be a lot of fans for whom the players are just playing units who are fungible, to be discarded without a second thought when their parts wear out.     But I've never seen them that way.    I see them as people, who have worked very hard to perfect their craft, who have close relationships to their teammates, and who in certain cases have contributed a tremendous amount to the success of the team over a considerable period of time.

That's why it's killing me to watch Chris Tillman and J.J. Hardy this year.    I want so badly for them to rally and put together a season where, even if they're not as good as they used to be, they can still be seen as contributing to the team.    And nearly halfway through the season, I know that it's not likely to happen, and that at the end of the year, it will be time to part ways with them.    And yes, I know it's possible that the team would be better off parting ways with them right now, instead of waiting until the end of the year.    That still could happen, especially with Tillman if he can't find a way to get more hitters out.     But as I said, I really hope it doesn't come to that. I'll be watching watching Tilly today and rooting for him to find a way to keep the Rays at bay.    And if he can't, I won't be mad.   I'll just be sad.    I'll never forget that he and J.J. were huge contributors to an enjoyable period of Orioles baseball, who were good teammates and did everything they could to help the team win.     They'll never be just worn out playing units to me.

That's good Frobby. Sometimes fans, me included forget the human element. I sure wish this team could be in the playoffs and that JJ could be part of that. JJ is one of my favorite players.