Documentary Film on “The Blade”

[yeoledugger]

Coming in October to MASN, a documentary film about Mark Belanger.  I suppose this should be posted in the Orioles History forum, but I thought many people would like to know about this upcoming film.

Here’s the link:

“The Blade” Documentary

[bird watcher]

I just glanced at his stats having never done so.  How was he the starting shortstop as long as he was??  His OPS+ was terrible. He had plenty of errors. His SB% wasn’t good. The only positive I could find was his fielding%. Was he really THAT good defensively??

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, bird watcher said:

I just glanced at his stats having never done so.  How was he the starting shortstop as long as he was??  His OPS+ was terrible. He had plenty of errors. His SB% wasn’t good. The only positive I could find was his fielding%. Was he really THAT good defensively??

I've seen lists where he was tied with Smith. 

I can't see why anyone would rate him lower than third all time.

[SteveA]

25 minutes ago, bird watcher said:

I just glanced at his stats having never done so.  How was he the starting shortstop as long as he was??  His OPS+ was terrible. He had plenty of errors. His SB% wasn’t good. The only positive I could find was his fielding%. Was he really THAT good defensively??

Yes he was.

And you also have to compare his #s to other shortstops at the time.  It was a glove based position in the 70s.  There were very few SSs with any significant power, and plenty of #8/#9 hitting singles hitters.  Belanger was weaker than most...but he wasn't playing I'm a league full of Lindors, Correas, and Seagers.  The league was full of Pateks, Dents, Campanerises, and Concepcions.  Some could hit, but they weren't light years ahead of Belanger like today's guys would be.

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

33 minutes ago, bird watcher said:

I just glanced at his stats having never done so.  How was he the starting shortstop as long as he was??  His OPS+ was terrible. He had plenty of errors. His SB% wasn’t good. The only positive I could find was his fielding%. Was he really THAT good defensively??

This is why.

https://www.baseball-reference.com/leaders/WAR_def_career.shtml

Rank	Player (yrs, age)	Defensive WAR	Bats
1.	Ozzie Smith+ (19)	44.2	B
2.	Mark Belanger (18)	39.5	R
3.	Brooks Robinson+ (23)	39.1	R
4.	Cal Ripken+ (21)	35.7	R
5.	Joe Tinker+ (15)	34.3	R

[tntoriole]

26 minutes ago, SteveA said:

Yes he was.

And you also have to compare his #s to other shortstops at the time.  It was a glove based position in the 70s.  There were very few SSs with any significant power, and plenty of #8/#9 hitting singles hitters.  Belanger was weaker than most...but he wasn't playing I'm a league full of Lindors, Correas, and Seagers.  The league was full of Pateks, Dents, Campanerises, and Concepcions.  Some could hit, but they weren't light years ahead of Belanger like today's guys would be.

Exactly...Add Dal Maxvill of the Cardinals and Ray Oyler of the Tigers and Eddie Brinkman of Washington etc  to the list of no hit, good field shortstops of that time ...the only true power shortstop of the 1960s was Ernie Banks who was shifted from short to first in early 1960s and Rico Petrocelli and Jim Fregosi... it wasn’t until Cal came along and spawned ARod  that the bat requirements for the position changed.   But I watched Belanger for years with Brooks and he played the position better than any Oriole shortstop, better than Aparicio, better than Cal, better than Bordick or Hardy...he was a defensive wizard. 

[bird watcher]

Interesting also that he only had 8 GG in a career that long but was considered the second best defensive player ever.  

I wonder what the positionally adjusted OPS+ was like for him?  Was he average with the bat for a SS of the time or was he still pretty bad?  

He was only an allstar once and that was as his best offensive year.  

All the players on the list above for Top defensive WAR are Hall of famers.  

 

 

[SteveA]

10 minutes ago, bird watcher said:

Interesting also that he only had 8 GG in a career that long but was considered the second best defensive player ever.  

I wonder what the positionally adjusted OPS+ was like for him?  Was he average with the bat for a SS of the time or was he still pretty bad?  

He was only an allstar once and that was as his best offensive year.  

All the players on the list above for Top defensive WAR are Hall of famers.  

 

 

No, he was still well below average for a SS of his time.   My point in my other post is that he wasn't AS far behind many other shortstops as his numbers would lead you to think based on today's standards.

[Can_of_corn]

I would compare him to Andrelton Simmons in 2014.

[NashLumber]

This article was written by Frank Vaccaro

"The most electrifying defensive shortstop of his generation, Mark Belanger set the standard by anchoring a great Baltimore Orioles infield for most of 14 seasons. During this stretch, Baltimore won 90 or more games 11 times with six postseason appearances capped by the 1970 world championship. Belanger and Ozzie Smith are the only shortstops to retire with fielding averages over .975 while averaging more than five fielding chances per game.

Belanger used two tiny black gloves per season and broke them in with spit and coffee. He got upset if anybody touched them. Watching him have a catch with a teammate on the sidelines was striking. He never seemed to actually catch a ball; rather he redirected them into his throwing hand. Sports Illustrated once wrote: “Belanger would glide effortlessly after a grounder and welcome it into loving arms; scooping the ball up with a single easy motion, and bringing it to his chest for a moment’s caress before making his throw.”

https://sabr.org/bioproj/person/bbcae277

 

"What makes Belanger such a distinctive player in baseball history is that he was equal parts incredible and terrible. For a career to last 18 seasons, there has to be value. For Belanger, it was his glove. Belanger picked up eight American League Gold Glove awards in the ten-season span between 1969 and 1978. Belanger’s SABR Bio opens by describing him as "the most electrifying shortstop of his generation." But boy was he a terrible hitter. In 6,601 career plate appearances, Belanger posted a career slash line of .223/.300/.280. His career OPS was not that much higher than Hank Aaron’s career slugging percentage. His play at the plate amounted to a career OPS+ of 68.

Let’s put his singular combination of incredible and terrible into context. Mark Belanger is the only player in baseball history to have accumulated more than 40 Wins Above Replacement (rWAR) while posting an OPS+ under 70, according to Baseball Reference’s Play Index. Even more strikingly, he’s also the only player in baseball history to have more than 40 rWAR in a career while also posting an OPS+ under 80. We have to up the limit to 85 to find company for Belanger. The company is limited, revealing, and has all the components of a great Play Index search. We have the Hall of Famer in Luis Aparicio; there’s the more easily remembered, more contemporary defensive wizard Omar Vizquel; and filling the role of deadballer with a funny name is Rabbit Maranville, who is also a Hall of Famer. "

https://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/2015/11/10/9699244/mark-belanger-extraordinary-defense-terrible-offense

[weams]

5 hours ago, bird watcher said:

I just glanced at his stats having never done so.  How was he the starting shortstop as long as he was??  His OPS+ was terrible. He had plenty of errors. His SB% wasn’t good. The only positive I could find was his fielding%. Was he really THAT good defensively??

He was fantastic. A rock. 

[tntoriole]

2 hours ago, NashLumber said:

This article was written by Frank Vaccaro

"The most electrifying defensive shortstop of his generation, Mark Belanger set the standard by anchoring a great Baltimore Orioles infield for most of 14 seasons. During this stretch, Baltimore won 90 or more games 11 times with six postseason appearances capped by the 1970 world championship. Belanger and Ozzie Smith are the only shortstops to retire with fielding averages over .975 while averaging more than five fielding chances per game.

Belanger used two tiny black gloves per season and broke them in with spit and coffee. He got upset if anybody touched them. Watching him have a catch with a teammate on the sidelines was striking. He never seemed to actually catch a ball; rather he redirected them into his throwing hand. Sports Illustrated once wrote: “Belanger would glide effortlessly after a grounder and welcome it into loving arms; scooping the ball up with a single easy motion, and bringing it to his chest for a moment’s caress before making his throw.”

https://sabr.org/bioproj/person/bbcae277

 

"What makes Belanger such a distinctive player in baseball history is that he was equal parts incredible and terrible. For a career to last 18 seasons, there has to be value. For Belanger, it was his glove. Belanger picked up eight American League Gold Glove awards in the ten-season span between 1969 and 1978. Belanger’s SABR Bio opens by describing him as "the most electrifying shortstop of his generation." But boy was he a terrible hitter. In 6,601 career plate appearances, Belanger posted a career slash line of .223/.300/.280. His career OPS was not that much higher than Hank Aaron’s career slugging percentage. His play at the plate amounted to a career OPS+ of 68.

Let’s put his singular combination of incredible and terrible into context. Mark Belanger is the only player in baseball history to have accumulated more than 40 Wins Above Replacement (rWAR) while posting an OPS+ under 70, according to Baseball Reference’s Play Index. Even more strikingly, he’s also the only player in baseball history to have more than 40 rWAR in a career while also posting an OPS+ under 80. We have to up the limit to 85 to find company for Belanger. The company is limited, revealing, and has all the components of a great Play Index search. We have the Hall of Famer in Luis Aparicio; there’s the more easily remembered, more contemporary defensive wizard Omar Vizquel; and filling the role of deadballer with a funny name is Rabbit Maranville, who is also a Hall of Famer. "

https://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/2015/11/10/9699244/mark-belanger-extraordinary-defense-terrible-offense

Yes, this description captures his defensive skills.  He would transfer ground balls to his throwing motion quicker than any defensive infielder I have ever seen.  And his throws were pinpoint...all the time.   And he had such range, using his gliding speed into the hole or to his left past second.  He was very fast...having double digit steal seasons nine times, despit his on base percentage being terrible.  He was also an excellent bunter, likely the best in Orioles history.  But he was an awful offensive player...awful.  

[atomic]

Belanger and Ozzie Smith were so great defensively.  You would think teams would go defense first at Short Stop again.  It would be cheaper and would make your pitchers better.  

[atomic]

8 hours ago, bird watcher said:

I just glanced at his stats having never done so.  How was he the starting shortstop as long as he was??  His OPS+ was terrible. He had plenty of errors. His SB% wasn’t good. The only positive I could find was his fielding%. Was he really THAT good defensively??

Different era.  Errors were called a lot more than they do now. 

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, atomic said:

Belanger and Ozzie Smith were so great defensively.  You would think teams would go defense first at Short Stop again.  It would be cheaper and would make your pitchers better.  

Simmons.