Orioles Deal Gausman/O'Day to Braves - Schoop to Brewers

[LookinUp]

If you take 10 minutes I bet you'd find a ton of successful bullpen guys are failed starters. They usually don't see the lineup more than once. They get to throw with max effort. They get to focus on two pitches only. With better velocity and only seeing guys one time, even their mistakes are less likely to be HRs. 

This isn't a novel theory. It's been tried and successful all the time. Hell. Oliver Drake has pitched in 30 games for one of the best teams in baseball. It's simply easier to be a reliever than a starter. That's why it works sometimes.

[clapdiddy]

On 8/6/2019 at 8:15 AM, Moose Milligan said:

Tut tut!  

Is this the part where I get on my old man porch and say "BUT THE FASTBALL LOOKED STRAIGHT I SAW IT WITH MY OWN EYES!"

 

I feel the same way about Blaine Knight...who we went over slot for last year.  

[Can_of_corn]

9 minutes ago, LookinUp said:

If you take 10 minutes I bet you'd find a ton of successful bullpen guys are failed starters. They usually don't see the lineup more than once. They get to throw with max effort. They get to focus on two pitches only. With better velocity and only seeing guys one time, even their mistakes are less likely to be HRs. 

This isn't a novel theory. It's been tried and successful all the time. Hell. Oliver Drake has pitched in 30 games for one of the best teams in baseball. It's simply easier to be a reliever than a starter. That's why it works sometimes.

Of course.  Very few relievers get drafted, so even mediocre minor league relievers are failed starters.

[waroriole]

11 minutes ago, LookinUp said:

If you take 10 minutes I bet you'd find a ton of successful bullpen guys are failed starters. They usually don't see the lineup more than once. They get to throw with max effort. They get to focus on two pitches only. With better velocity and only seeing guys one time, even their mistakes are less likely to be HRs. 

This isn't a novel theory. It's been tried and successful all the time. Hell. Oliver Drake has pitched in 30 games for one of the best teams in baseball. It's simply easier to be a reliever than a starter. That's why it works sometimes.

The only guy to get unanimously voted into the Hall (for some reason) was a failed SP. 

[DrungoHazewood]

1 hour ago, waroriole said:

The only guy to get unanimously voted into the Hall (for some reason) was a failed SP. 

Maybe we should look at this another way.  Most pro position players were shortstops at some point.  So almost every second or third baseman in the Hall is a failed shortstop.  Every LF/RFer is a failed center fielder.  Every first baseman is a guy who couldn't handle every other position.  Harold Baines and Edgar and Paul Molitor and David Ortiz eventually failed at every position.  Almost nobody has the chops to max out the positional adjustment.

[Enjoy Terror]

2 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

Of course.  Very few relievers get drafted, so even mediocre minor league relievers are failed starters.

If you look at all of the pitchers in the minor leagues from the last 15 years, and then look at all the ones that made the majors, it’s split almost 50/50 between minor league relievers and starters. It’s contrary to the theory that the majority of relievers were failed starters.

EDIT: i glossed over the fact you said drafted. Nevermind.

[LookinUp]

1 minute ago, Enjoy Terror said:

If you look at all of the pitchers in the minor leagues from the last 15 years, and then look at all the ones that made the majors, it’s split almost 50/50 between minor league relievers and starters. It’s contrary to the theory that the majority of relievers were failed starters.

Go back far enough and it's probably 99% starters. I do know a kid who's a closer now, but that's just because it's where the coach wants him. He could be a starter. All the best can at a young enough age.

The point, to me, is it makes perfect sense to move failed starters at the major league level to the bullpen in a lot of cases. There are some where the guy flat out doesn't have the stuff to be a major leaguer, but Gausman isn't that guy.

[Enjoy Terror]

8 minutes ago, LookinUp said:

Go back far enough and it's probably 99% starters. I do know a kid who's a closer now, but that's just because it's where the coach wants him. He could be a starter. All the best can at a young enough age.

The point, to me, is it makes perfect sense to move failed starters at the major league level to the bullpen in a lot of cases. There are some where the guy flat out doesn't have the stuff to be a major leaguer, but Gausman isn't that guy.

15 years is not an insignificant amount of time for all of baseball history, 99% seems aggressive.

I agree it makes sense when you can’t get a starter to consistently get outs because he can’t dial it up for long enough, but in cases where you don’t have enough pitches or no singular amazing plus plus pitch, it could be that your stuff isn’t enough for the show. 

We drafted Gausman because he was a complete collegiate pitcher with the pitches to succeed immediately. His lack of success is perplexing and I used to blame the Orioles for screwing him up... I can’t blame the Braves too. Sometimes the best and brightest don’t always pan out.

[LookinUp]

5 minutes ago, Enjoy Terror said:

15 years is not an insignificant amount of time for all of baseball history, 99% seems aggressive.

I agree it makes sense when you can’t get a starter to consistently get outs because he can’t dial it up for long enough, but in cases where you don’t have enough pitches or no singular amazing plus plus pitch, it could be that your stuff isn’t enough for the show. 

We drafted Gausman because he was a complete collegiate pitcher with the pitches to succeed immediately. His lack of success is perplexing and I used to blame the Orioles for screwing him up... I can’t blame the Braves too. Sometimes the best and brightest don’t always pan out.

I think we failed big time in his development. He needed a real plan. Instead, our 2 pitch starter was promoted to help the ML team.