Orioles select SS Richie Martin with 1st pick of Rule 5 Draft

[NCRaven]

Who is the best ML ready SS prospect not named Gavin Lux?  Would Mancini bring back that kind of player in return?

[weams]

8 minutes ago, Philip said:

Earlier in the summer I thought he would be non-tendered, but he ended up playing so well that I do think he will be offered a contract. But there’s so much personnel movement in the off-season and they’re so many options available at second base and short that Villar won’t return very much in trade.

Unless, unless, unless, Mike is willing to take some 17-year-old lottery picks  as in the cashner trade. I could see him doing that.

I think he's be glad for two 17 year olds. 

[Ruzious]

10 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

Potentially, it would depend on who is available. It's doubtful though that many legitimately ready SS are available in that draft.

I could see Elias pulling of a trade here since honestly, there's not a legitimate upper tier level starting SS in the system right now unless you want to go down to the GCL where Gunnar Henderson most likely ends up a 3B and Hernaiz is so far away it's hard to tell yet. 

I've said it before (to no reaction) - a player I would try to trade for is Johan Camargo (age 25) of the Braves.  He came up as a solid defensive SS right behind studs Dansby Swanson and Ozzie Albies, so he got moved to 3B.  He had a helluva year there in 2018 - only to see the Braves trade for Donaldson and that they had a stud 3rd base prospect (Riley) ready.  So, he got stuck on the bench this year, was probably very unhappy about it, and stunk when he got to play.  He even got sent down to AAA for a stretch - where he destroyed AAA pitching (in albeit small sample size theater).  But since then, it looks like he might have lost his post-season roster spot to Hechavarria.  I think he would love a chance to play every day for the Orioles - particularly at SS.  Braves will try to re-sign Donaldson in the offseason - Camargo is blocked everywhere.  Braves aren't going to give him away, but I'm thinking Givens and either Severino or Sisco might git er done.      

[wildcard]

Until we know if Villar is traded I don't think we know where Martin fits.    Villar had a very good 2nd half offensively and also play better at SS in the 2nd according  to my eye test.  Yes, I did watch most of the games.

I don't think we can rely on what was or wasn't offered for Villar at the trade deadline.  He opened some eyes in the 2nd half.

[Luke-OH]

14 minutes ago, NCRaven said:

Who is the best ML ready SS prospect not named Gavin Lux?  Would Mancini bring back that kind of player in return?

Wander Franco and Royce Lewis, Wander Franco is the best prospect in baseball and Royce isn't too far behind. Maybe you could hope the Rockies or Nationals would give Carter Kieboom or Brendan Rodgers for Mancini, but with the way 1B/COF are valued and the way prospects are valued, I'd doubt it. 

Edit: You said MLB ready, which Lewis and Franco are not, my mistake.

 

 

 

[HowAboutThat]

14 minutes ago, Ruzious said:

I've said it before (to no reaction) - a player I would try to trade for is Johan Camargo (age 25) of the Braves.  He came up as a solid defensive SS right behind studs Dansby Swanson and Ozzie Albies, so he got moved to 3B.  He had a helluva year there in 2018 - only to see the Braves trade for Donaldson and that they had a stud 3rd base prospect (Riley) ready.  So, he got stuck on the bench this year, was probably very unhappy about it, and stunk when he got to play.  He even got sent down to AAA for a stretch - where he destroyed AAA pitching (in albeit small sample size theater).  But since then, it looks like he might have lost his post-season roster spot to Hechavarria.  I think he would love a chance to play every day for the Orioles - particularly at SS.  Braves will try to re-sign Donaldson in the offseason - Camargo is blocked everywhere.  Braves aren't going to give him away, but I'm thinking Givens and either Severino or Sisco might git er done.      

Why would the Braves want any of those guys?

[NCRaven]

3 minutes ago, Luke-OH said:

Maybe you could hope the Rockies or Nationals would give Carter Kieboom or Brendan Rodgers for Mancini, but with the way 1B/COF are valued and the way prospects are valued, I'd doubt it. 

 

It seems to me that the biggest gap in our near ML ready talent is at 3B-SS-2B.  We have several outfield prospects that are here or close to getting here.  Our future catcher is likely to rise fairly quickly through the system.  We have Mountcastle likely to be ready at 1B soon.  So, the best case scenario in a Mancini trade for a short stop is Kieboom or Rodgers.  What about 3B or 2B?  Or would a pitcher be more likely?  

[SteveA]

11 minutes ago, Luke-OH said:

Wander Franco and Royce Lewis, Wander Franco is the best prospect in baseball and Royce isn't too far behind. Maybe you could hope the Rockies or Nationals would give Carter Kieboom or Brendan Rodgers for Mancini, but with the way 1B/COF are valued and the way prospects are valued, I'd doubt it. 

Edit: You said MLB ready, which Lewis and Franco are not, my mistake.

 

 

 

I don't think Elias cares about getting someone who is ML ready anyway.   He just wants to put the most talent possible into our system.   I don't think he's going to go out of his way to pick up a quality 2020 shortstop unless that guy has real longterm value too.   Another Rule 5, a waiver claim, whatever.   If Martin is in AAA the SS spot will be filled on the cheap for 2020.

[Ruzious]

Look at their roster.  Their catchers are on their last legs - Flowers has nothing left, and McCann's older at 35.  They have a power-hitting catcher in AAA, but he's a converted OFer who I doubt they want to go with.  They have 2 other catching prospects who aren't close to making it.  The Braves bullpen has improved but still needs more talent.  Givens needs to get away from Baltimore - look at his splits.  Batters hit .186 against him on the road - in 28.1 innings, he had 46 K's, 11 walks, and 19 hits off him.       

[atomic]

21 minutes ago, NCRaven said:

It seems to me that the biggest gap in our near ML ready talent is at 3B-SS-2B.  We have several outfield prospects that are here or close to getting here.  Our future catcher is likely to rise fairly quickly through the system.  We have Mountcastle likely to be ready at 1B soon.  So, the best case scenario in a Mancini trade for a short stop is Kieboom or Rodgers.  What about 3B or 2B?  Or would a pitcher be more likely?  

We have Bannon.  Seems like if we just keep everyone we have our line-up will be pretty good in a year or so.  Our pitching on the other hand. 

[NCRaven]

1 minute ago, SteveA said:

I don't think Elias cares about getting someone who is ML ready anyway.   He just wants to put the most talent possible into our system.   I don't think he's going to go out of his way to pick up a quality 2020 shortstop unless that guy has real longterm value too.   Another Rule 5, a waiver claim, whatever.   If Martin is in AAA the SS spot will be filled on the cheap for 2020.

If we trade for a high quality (I did say best ML ready shortstop not name Gavin Lux) short stop prospect, the presumption is that the player does have long-term value, not just for 2020.  My point was that Mancini might bring back a player that can help soon and be here for the long haul.  I clearly wasn't talking about trading for an established ML player, in or past his prime, that doesn't have a lot of team control.  Either Rodgers or Keiboom would fit that description.

[atomic]

14 minutes ago, Ruzious said:

Look at their roster.  Their catchers are on their last legs - Flowers has nothing left, and McCann's older at 35.  They have a power-hitting catcher in AAA, but he's a converted OFer who I doubt they want to go with.  They have 2 other catching prospects who aren't close to making it.  The Braves bullpen has improved but still needs more talent.  Givens needs to get away from Baltimore - look at his splits.  Batters hit .186 against him on the road - in 28.1 innings, he had 46 K's, 11 walks, and 19 hits off him.       

Severino and Sisco aren't getting you much.  Severino can't catch at all and he wasn't hitting well in the second and never hit in the minors.  No one is going to trade anything for him. 

[NCRaven]

5 minutes ago, atomic said:

We have Bannon.  Seems like if we just keep everyone we have our line-up will be pretty good in a year or so.  Our pitching on the other hand. 

Bannon does not look like a ML starter at either 2B or 3B and certainly not at SS.  And, Akin, Kremer, Lowther, Baumann, Wells, Hall and Rodriquez may impact that last sentence over the next few seasons.  All of them are ahead of every infield prospect (outside of first base) other than Adam Hall who is only at the same level as Rodriguez and behind all of the others.

[HowAboutThat]

3 minutes ago, Ruzious said:

Look at their roster.  Their catchers are on their last legs - Flowers has nothing left, and McCann's older at 35.  They have a power-hitting catcher in AAA, but he's a converted OFer who I doubt they want to go with.  They have 2 other catching prospects who aren't close to making it.  The Braves bullpen has improved but still needs more talent.  Givens needs to get away from Baltimore - look at his splits.  Batters hit .186 against him on the road - in 28.1 innings, he had 46 K's, 11 walks, and 19 hits off him.       

The braves are in easy position to get a good catcher. Severino is certainly a serviceable catcher, but whether he is “good” depends upon  what else is available, and with tasty pieces to trade such as abound in Atlanta, they can easily find someone better.  Sisco Has no trade value. Givens may very well need to get away, but no one is going to give up anything meaningful for him.

[MDtransplant757]

I think if Villar gets traded, Martin is the starting SS for the Orioles next year barring the Orioles getting someone back that could replaces Villar and Martin. Villar I think could go to the Nationals in a trade depending on whether Rendon stays. If Rendon stays, Kieboom will most likely go to 2B, if not then Kieboom profiles well at 3B. Boston could be as well because who knows if Pedrioa will ever come back, and Villar is a cheap bat and fills a hole at 2B.

What we'd get back for them, probably not a whole lot since their systems are weak and their really the only teams off the top of my head that could use 2B help. Probably depends on how desperate each team is to compete still, considering Boston's expiring window and no idea whether Mookie betts will stay after this coming season.