A couple of thoughts about our current catchers and Adley Rutschman

[spiritof66]

2 hours ago, Frobby said:

I think the premise that he can’t cut it at catcher is flatly wrong.   He’s more than adequate back there based on every metric I can find.   Below average for a major leaguer, but by no means at a level where he couldn’t start for a major league team.  

Have a look at this link and click the “catching” tab.   BP has Sisco on pace to be 3 runs below average for the full year.   Last year he was 5.6 below average in the majors and minors combined.    That’s trivial in the grand scheme of things.  https://legacy.baseballprospectus.com/card/102743/chance-sisco

Bottom line, if his major league hitting eventually resembles his minor league hitting, he’s easily good enough to start in the majors at catcher, much less be a backup.   But will he get that opportunity?    It’s not looking like it.   

I didn't say Chance can't cut it as a catcher, but there seems to be continuing uncertainty in the organization about that, leading to a discussion of alternatives. His record for throwing out runners is not good, but maybe that has something to do with pitchers' failure to hold them close.

If he's really, as you say, "Below average [defensively] for a major leaguer, but by no means at a level where he couldn’t start for a major league team," and can hit, he's in contention for Most Valuable Oriole, and should already be in the big leagues. I can't help thinking someone in the organization with influence doesn't view him that way. Let's see.

[DrungoHazewood]

2 hours ago, Philip said:

I think Sisco was just a bad pick based on a flawed drafting philosophy.

”Defense? Who cares about defense? He can hit!”

There's a pretty long list of catchers who couldn't really cut it defensively who had very long, very successful careers after being transitioned somewhere else because they can hit.  Everyone from Dale Murphy to Carlos Delgado to Craig Biggio and Joe Torre on and on.  Sisco was a mid-second round pick.  It's not like you have a long list of five tool guys to choose from there.

[Natty]

Whats wrong with Bobby Witt Jr? Our SS can't even bat .200 

[ArtVanDelay]

1 hour ago, Philip said:

Dan couldn’t, apparently...but that just proves my point. Defense wasn’t a concern when they drafted him, or Mountcastle either. And then they flipped the logic when drafting Cayden Grenier, who byball accounts is a great SS with no bat.

”la comedia es stupenda!”

Yeah, why wouldn't they just draft 5 tool superstars with every pick?  Idiots. 

[TINSTAAPP]

27 minutes ago, spiritof66 said:

I didn't say Chance can't cut it as a catcher, but there seems to be continuing uncertainty in the organization about that, leading to a discussion of alternatives. His record for throwing out runners is not good, but maybe that has something to do with pitchers' failure to hold them close.

If he's really, as you say, "Below average [defensively] for a major leaguer, but by no means at a level where he couldn’t start for a major league team," and can hit, he's in contention for Most Valuable Oriole, and should already be in the big leagues. I can't help thinking someone in the organization with influence doesn't view him that way. Let's see.

There's a lot more to being a good defensive catcher than their ability to throw out baserunners. Also, Severino and Wynns have atrocious defensive metrics. Severino is currently at  -12 BIS defensive runs saved above average per 1200 innings and Wynns is even worse at -29 BIS defensive runs saved above average per 1200 innings. Sisco literally can't be much worse than two have been defensively.  

[Philip]

2 minutes ago, ArtVanDelay said:

Yeah, why wouldn't they just draft 5 tool superstars with every pick?  Idiots. 

That’s a strawman comment and you know it. The complaint is about their drafting judgment. Any fool can pick a five tool guy. The problem comes in using poor logic to make the choices you do make, and that poor logic is pretty obvious and many of their picks.

[jabba72]

19 minutes ago, Natty said:

Whats wrong with Bobby Witt Jr? Our SS can't even bat .200 

 Rutschman at least is a sure bet to become an everyday player, even if its at the most demanding position.  If the Orioles scouts say "Witt is the real deal, he'll move up quickly", then I wont mind them making that pick.  But everything I've read says he isnt polished enough to get a read on how good of a hitter or if he'll stay at SS. 

[Just Regular]

1 hour ago, Moose Milligan said:

I had this thought yesterday and was about to post something similar but didn't feel like reading buzzkill replies.

Draft Rutschman, get him to Baltimore after whatever the date the playing clock time passes in 2020.  

I feel like Rutschman 2020 is going to resemble Yusniel/Mountcastle 2019.  Yusniel isn't putting any pressure on Elias, nor is Mountcastle's BB/K much.  On the video posted the other day, the tone with which Elias referred to Mountcastle as "extremely" young for AAA reinforced my sense he's going to have to do an awful lot to get up this year.

Hopefully Rutschman 2020 will force the regime deeper into the excuse trick bag, and set up a "full Vlad" spring 2021.

[Legend_Of_Joey]

38 minutes ago, Natty said:

Whats wrong with Bobby Witt Jr? Our SS can't even bat .200 

 

14 minutes ago, jabba72 said:

 Rutschman at least is a sure bet to become an everyday player, even if its at the most demanding position.  If the Orioles scouts say "Witt is the real deal, he'll move up quickly", then I wont mind them making that pick.  But everything I've read says he isnt polished enough to get a read on how good of a hitter or if he'll stay at SS. 

Also compare Witt and Rutchsman vs. what is currently in the system.

Adam Hall is making a great case with the bat and is pretty good on defense for a Low A player. Is Witt that much more of an upgrade over him, vs. Adley against the other catchers in the system?

[Can_of_corn]

17 minutes ago, Legend_Of_Joey said:

 

Also compare Witt and Rutchsman vs. what is currently in the system.

Adam Hall is making a great case with the bat and is pretty good on defense for a Low A player. Is Witt that much more of an upgrade over him, vs. Adley against the other catchers in the system?

There is nothing in the farm that should influence who you pick 1-1.

[Frobby]

3 hours ago, Philip said:

Dan couldn’t, apparently...but that just proves my point. Defense wasn’t a concern when they drafted him, or Mountcastle either. And then they flipped the logic when drafting Cayden Grenier, who byball accounts is a great SS with no bat.

”la comedia es stupenda!”

To me, you draft a guy in the second round and he becomes a top 100 prospect, it’s hard for me to call that a bad pick.   Let’s not forget the O’s drafted 4 catchers in the first 10 rounds (11 picks) that year, including Jonah Heim, Alex Murphy and Austin Wynns.

[Cumberbundy]

I’d like to take a moment to thank Duq for Adley, we couldn’t have done it without him. I have been harsh on the guy, but he deserves some praise for locking up back to back #1 overall picks for our Birds, also for drafting meatlowth.

 

[Philip]

57 minutes ago, Frobby said:

To me, you draft a guy in the second round and he becomes a top 100 prospect, it’s hard for me to call that a bad pick.   Let’s not forget the O’s drafted 4 catchers in the first 10 rounds (11 picks) that year, including Jonah Heim, Alex Murphy and Austin Wynns.

Let’s see how he turns out.  I can’t say Who I would have drafted, but I can say that my draft philosophy would be to draft the best all-around player. I don’t want someone who runs but can’t hit, who hits but can’t field, who fields but can’t run. Single skill guys are worth taking, but only farther down the draft. Sisco Was drafted because it was expected that he would hit, and no one cared about his defense. Well guess what? He hasn’t hit, but he has struck out a whole lot.

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, Philip said:

Let’s see how he turns out.  I can’t say Who I would have drafted, but I can say that my draft philosophy would be to draft the best all-around player. I don’t want someone who runs but can’t hit, who hits but can’t field, who fields but can’t run. Single skill guys are worth taking, but only farther down the draft. Sisco Was drafted because it was expected that he would hit, and no one cared about his defense. Well guess what? He hasn’t hit, but he has struck out a whole lot.

You keep saying this and you have no evidence to support it.

 

He had caught for ONE SEASON in HS.  He was a reasonably athletic kid.  It was not at all out of the question that he could be molded into an average or even above average catcher.  He was not drafted with the idea that he would be a poor catcher.  Feel free to find evidence to the contrary.

That ignores the fact that he really isn't the worst catcher in the history of the world and that if he hits, the O's could easily absorb his defense.

[Philip]

7 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

You keep saying this and you have no evidence to support it.

 

He had caught for ONE SEASON in HS.  He was a reasonably athletic kid.  It was not at all out of the question that he could be molded into an average or even above average catcher.  He was not drafted with the idea that he would be a poor catcher.  Feel free to find evidence to the contrary.

That ignores the fact that he really isn't the worst catcher in the history of the world and that if he hits, the O's could easily absorb his defense.

(Yawn)

”he hits.”

”what about his defense?”

”who cares? He’s caught for a year. If he doesn’t stick there, we’ll find A place for him.”

And now, we still don’t have a place for him. If he were an acceptable catcher, there’d be no debate. But because there’s still discussion, it’s still an issue.

do with that what you will.

I have some suggestions...