Dan Duquette did pretty well with July 2018 trades

[jamalshw]

3 hours ago, DrungoHazewood said:

That has to be one of the worst-executed fire sales ever.  Offloaded Surhoff, Bordick, Baines, Clark, and Johnson, and every one of the trades netted someone 28 or older.  Plus some spare parts and minor leaguers that never worked out.  Syd's going in position for all of this must have been "Hey, who''s your 7th-best infielder? That's who we want."  Who acquires a 30-year-old catcher, multiple 27-year-old AAA first basemen, and a 36-year-old outfielder in a fire sale?

Hey, Brook Fordyce, Chris Richard, Mike Kinkade, and Hubbard were legendary Orioles.

[Sessh]

For those curious (I think these are right):

Mets get:

Mike Bordick (resigned with the Orioles as a FA that offseason)

Orioles get:

Lesli Brea (RHP, 26yo then thought to be 21yo), Melvin Mora (Util, 28yo), Mike Kinkade (1B/LF, 27yo) and pitching prospect Pat Gorman (RHP, 22yo)

Braves get:

B.J. Surhoff, Gabe Molina

Orioles get:

Trent Hubbard (reserve OF, 36yo), minor leaguers Luis Rivera (RHP, 22yo) and Fernando Lunar (C, 23yo)

Cardinals get:

Will Clark (Orioles paid half his remaining $2M salary)

Orioles get:

minor league 3B Jose Leon (23yo)

Chicago White Sox get:

Harold Baines & Charles Johnson

Orioles get:

Brook Fordyce (C, 30yo), minor leaguers Miguel Felix (LHP, 18yo), Juan Figueroa (RHP, 25yo) & Jason Lakman (RHP, 23yo)

Cardinals get:

Mike Timlin & cash

Orioles get:

Mark Nussbeck (RHP, 26yo), Chris Richard (1B/OF, 26yo)

[Can_of_corn]

4 minutes ago, Sessh said:

For those curious (I think these are right):

Mets get:

Mike Bordick (resigned with the Orioles as a FA that offseason)

Orioles get:

Lesli Brea (RHP, 26yo then thought to be 21yo), Melvin Mora (Util, 28yo), Mike Kinkade (1B/LF, 27yo) and pitching prospect Pat Gorman (RHP, 22yo)

Braves get:

B.J. Surhoff, Gabe Molina

Orioles get:

Trent Hubbard (reserve OF, 36yo), minor leaguers Luis Rivera (RHP, 22yo) and Fernando Lunar (C, 23yo)

Cardinals get:

Will Clark (Orioles paid half his remaining $2M salary)

Orioles get:

minor league 3B Jose Leon (23yo)

Chicago White Sox get:

Harold Baines & Charles Johnson

Orioles get:

Brook Fordyce (C, 30yo), minor leaguers Miguel Felix (LHP, 18yo), Juan Figueroa (RHP, 25yo) & Jason Lakman (RHP, 23yo)

Cardinals get:

Mike Timlin & cash

Orioles get:

Mark Nussbeck (RHP, 26yo), Chris Richard (1B/OF, 26yo)

Not a 17 year old Dominican in the bunch.

[sportsfan8703]

18 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Not a 17 year old Dominican in the bunch.

That’s where they messed up. Need those high ceilings. 

[DrungoHazewood]

29 minutes ago, Sessh said:

For those curious (I think these are right):

Mets get:

Mike Bordick (resigned with the Orioles as a FA that offseason)

Orioles get:

Lesli Brea (RHP, 26yo then thought to be 21yo), Melvin Mora (Util, 28yo), Mike Kinkade (1B/LF, 27yo) and pitching prospect Pat Gorman (RHP, 22yo)

Braves get:

B.J. Surhoff, Gabe Molina

Orioles get:

Trent Hubbard (reserve OF, 36yo), minor leaguers Luis Rivera (RHP, 22yo) and Fernando Lunar (C, 23yo)

Cardinals get:

Will Clark (Orioles paid half his remaining $2M salary)

Orioles get:

minor league 3B Jose Leon (23yo)

Chicago White Sox get:

Harold Baines & Charles Johnson

Orioles get:

Brook Fordyce (C, 30yo), minor leaguers Miguel Felix (LHP, 18yo), Juan Figueroa (RHP, 25yo) & Jason Lakman (RHP, 23yo)

Cardinals get:

Mike Timlin & cash

Orioles get:

Mark Nussbeck (RHP, 26yo), Chris Richard (1B/OF, 26yo)

I think the thing I didn't fully understand at the time was the age and contract status of the players involved.  The Orioles were mostly trading old guys on expiring deals.  What would a rational GM give up for two months of Mike Bordick or BJ Surhoff or Will Clark?  Pretty much what the O's got - longshots, AAA vets, grade C prospects. And, strangely, a few players older than the veterans they were dumping.

[Can_of_corn]

4 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

I think the thing I didn't fully understand at the time was the age and contract status of the players involved.  The Orioles were mostly trading old guys on expiring deals.  What would a rational GM give up for two months of Mike Bordick or BJ Surhoff or Will Clark?  Pretty much what the O's got - longshots, AAA vets, grade C prospects. And, strangely, a few players older than the veterans they were dumping.

I don't think all the GMs were the same type of rational then that they are now.  I'm not saying they could have brought back anyone better than Mora ended up being but I do think a different GM could have received a better group of on paper guys.

[DrungoHazewood]

1 hour ago, Frobby said:

I don’t think saving money was the objective of the trade.    I think Thrift was hoping to get lucky with a couple of the acquisitions — and indeed he did get lucky with Mora. And you’ll recall that the pitcher they got in the deal, Leslie Brea, was 4-5 years older than advertised.     

Age is always important.  4-5 years is huge.  But Brea had a 4.24 ERA and 6 BB/9 for AA Binghamton at the time of the deal.  I guess you can't expect much for two months of Mike Bordick.

[DrungoHazewood]

1 minute ago, Can_of_corn said:

I don't think all the GMs were the same type of rational then that they are now.  I'm not saying they could have brought back anyone better than Mora ended up being but I do think a different GM could have received a better group of on paper guys.

Sure.  This was the era where Syd was calling up asking for guys who'd been released two years ago, or were completely fictional.

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, DrungoHazewood said:

Sure.  This was the era where Syd was calling up asking for guys who'd been released two years ago, or were completely fictional.

I'm not sure you got my total point.  I think you are, to some degree, looking at the return through the prism of today's game.  I think guys like the O's traded were more highly valued back in the day.

[Hallas]

1 hour ago, DrungoHazewood said:

Age is always important.  4-5 years is huge.  But Brea had a 4.24 ERA and 6 BB/9 for AA Binghamton at the time of the deal.  I guess you can't expect much for two months of Mike Bordick.

Do we blame Thrift for the post-9/11 crackdown on age fraud among Dominicans?  Because the baseball world thought that Brea was 21.  I'm not opposed to answering "yes" to that question, especially if we can find evidence that there were rumors of possible age-fraud in his case or in others.

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, Hallas said:

Do we blame Thrift for the post-9/11 crackdown on age fraud among Dominicans?  Because the baseball world thought that Brea was 21.  I'm not opposed to answering "yes" to that question, especially if we can find evidence that there were rumors of possible age-fraud in his case or in others.

I think we can blame 9/11 for the post-9/11 crackdown on age fraud.  Entrance requirements were made more stringent.

[Hallas]

Just now, Can_of_corn said:

I think we can blame 9/11 for the post-9/11 crackdown on age fraud.  Entrance requirements were made more stringent.

Sure, but do we blame Thrift for Brea in particular?

[Can_of_corn]

3 minutes ago, Hallas said:

Sure, but do we blame Thrift for Brea in particular?

As you like.

[Frobby]

2 hours ago, Hallas said:

Sure, but do we blame Thrift for Brea in particular?

I’d say yes.   Brea was quite open about his actual age.   He mentioned it to reporters after his first major league start.    
Thrift also missed medical issues with Luis Rivera, the lead piece of the Surhoff trade.   
 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.baltimoresun.com/news/bs-xpm-2000-08-15-0008150133-story,amp.html

[Sessh]

I was just about to post that, Frobby. Here's a follow-up article from the very next day with more interesting tidbits.

Quote

Mets general manager Steve Phillips said yesterday Brea had told a secretary earlier this year that he was older than his listed birthdate but that the club believed the pitcher was no older than 23. Phillips said if there were industry-wide suspicions about Brea's age, it didn't prevent several clubs from introducing his name into trade discussions. The Cincinnati Reds and Tampa Bay Devil Rays are also believed to have shown interest.

"When we first learned he might be older, it was spring," Phillips said. "We assumed everything was in order when we got him from Seattle."

Phillips conceded that Brea's age has been something of a riddle. Brea attended a New Jersey high school but did not play baseball. Neither was he drafted. Not until he returned to the Dominican Republic did the Seattle Mariners sign him as a free agent. It is suspected Brea may have altered his birthdate to enhance his value. A name change would have helped stymie anyone attempting to investigate. The Mets traded for Brea in return for outfielder Butch Huskey and assumed his age legitimate.

"If they were duped, then so were we," Phillips said.

Thrift was surprised to learn about the discrepancy when he read accounts of Brea's major-league debut Sunday in Kansas City. Asked by reporters if he was actually 21, Brea answered he was 26.

It seems the Mets knew he lied about his age, but didn't investigate and just assumed what his real age was. Doesn't seem like they mentioned this to the Orioles at all. Lots of blunders surrounding Lesli Brea, it seems.