Are we witnessing the death of the Orioles?

[atomic]

31 minutes ago, Frobby said:

FedEx is a far less enjoyable experience than RFK was, regardless of how good or bad the team is.    It takes forever to get there, the parking situation is abysmal, and the concession prices are extortionate.    I know several people who spent years on the waiting list, got tickets at FedEx, and gave them up after a few years because the experience just wasn’t worth it.     Of course, the team’s failures are part of it too.   

I went to game there and got there 3 hours early and had no issues getting to stadium.  We tailgated and it was a decent experience.  Bought parking pass on StubHub.  Didnt see any problems with stadium. 

If the team was a winner people wouldn't be complaining about concession pricing.

[Frobby]

11 minutes ago, atomic said:

I went to game there and got there 3 hours early and had no issues getting to stadium.  We tailgated and it was a decent experience.  Bought parking pass on StubHub.  Didnt see any problems with stadium. 

If the team was a winner people wouldn't be complaining about concession pricing.

Good for you.   I don’t like going to games 3 hours early.   And for me, the presence of a lot of fans who have been drinking in the parking lot for three hours is a detriment.
 

About 15 years ago, I went to a Monday night game with a friend and our 10-year old sons.     Left my house (about 15 miles from FedEx) at 7 pm for a 9 pm game.    Took 1:45 to get to the parking area, where we paid $25 but still had to take a 10-15 minute bus ride to get to the stadium.     Took my son to the rest room, jam packed with drunk people shouting, cursing and shoving.    I was literally afraid my son might get crushed.    Then we had to leave the game barely after the 4th quarter started to have any hope of getting on one of the shuttle buses in time to be home before 1 a.m., which we just barely did.    Just a really lousy experience.    I’ve been to FedEx about 4 other times and it’s just inconvenient and a soulless building.    I’d much rather watch on TV than go there, whereas I’d much rather see a game at OPACY than on TV.

[DrungoHazewood]

27 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Good for you.   I don’t like going to games 3 hours early.   And for me, the presence of a lot of fans who have been drinking in the parking lot for three hours is a detriment.
 

About 15 years ago, I went to a Monday night game with a friend and our 10-year old sons.     Left my house (about 15 miles from FedEx) at 7 pm for a 9 pm game.    Took 1:45 to get to the parking area, where we paid $25 but still had to take a 10-15 minute bus ride to get to the stadium.     Took my son to the rest room, jam packed with drunk people shouting, cursing and shoving.    I was literally afraid my son might get crushed.    Then we had to leave the game barely after the 4th quarter started to have any hope of getting on one of the shuttle buses in time to be home before 1 a.m., which we just barely did.    Just a really lousy experience.    I’ve been to FedEx about 4 other times and it’s just inconvenient and a soulless building.    I’d much rather watch on TV than go there, whereas I’d much rather see a game at OPACY than on TV.

That's just the NFL. They encourage you to show up early, drink as much as you can in the parking lot, then continue drinking their outrageously priced alcohol right through the 3rd quarter.  And the stadium usually seats 85,000.  It's a little like nickel beer night in Cleveland every Sunday.

[spiritof66]

On 10/16/2019 at 2:08 PM, ORIOLE33 said:

So how can you possibly be so sure that they stay in Baltimore? 

I don't know who will own the Orioles next year, let alone ten years from now, so I can't guess whether the owners will want to move the franchise. But I don't think that matters. I'm sure the Orioles aren't going anywhere for, say, the next 15 to 20 years because I'm sure the other MLB owners won't let the Orioles move unless the circumstances in Baltimore decline very substantially, and a change of that type would take a very long time. 

MLB is deeply dedicated to the proposition that MLB can succeed in any decent-sized city, especially one with a long tradition of supporting MLB, and that the kind of difficulties that would justify a franchise move are the fault of something other than the National Pastime's inability to attract fans -- like an inadequate stadium or lousy owners. The former is why the Expos left Montreal, and it's why the Rays and the A's will be permitted to move if they can't make arrangements for decent places to play.

I don't see how the Orioles could persuade the other owners to approve a move from Baltimore and Camden Yards. If the Angeloses or their successors were to seek permission to move on the ground that they just can't make a go of it in Baltimore, I think it's vastly more likely that the other owners would tell them they should sell the team to someone who can make it work.

In addition, there's no great place for the Orioles to go -- at least not now. The situation for expansion is in no way comparable to those that led to past expansions to the West Coast and to cities like Houston, Dallas and Denver, when large areas of the country and very big, growing cities had no major league baseball. That may change over time, but right now much of the country's population growth is in already-large metropolitan areas (which are unavailable for a move since existing franchise-holders have the right to keep out competition) and medium-size Sun Belt cities too small to support a team. 

Even if the Orioles were to decide they wanted to depart for Nashville or Portland or Charlotte or Montreal or San Antonio, moving would not be available now. MLB is waiting for Tampa Bay or Oakland to decide whether it wants to move because it can't get an adequate ballpark built. Those franchises have first dibs on places to relocate. After those two situations are resolved, MLB will add at least two and possibly more expansion teams. The entry fees paid for the new franchises will be shared by all the owners, so they will have a strong incentive to keep the most promising new locations (after the Rays and A's are taken care of) available for expansion -- and remember that, at least at the moment, there aren't a lot of great choices.

I don't see how the Orioles, or any other team, would be allowed to move, taking away an expansion opportunity that enriches all the owners, until after that process is complete. That puts things out (I'm guessing) at least four and maybe as many as ten years before any other team could hope to get approval for a move. 

[incubus]

On 10/16/2019 at 8:57 AM, ChrisP said:

If folks have not looked into this project and the impact on the city, you're missing out. Baltimore is on the rebound. 

https://www.constructiondive.com/news/mega-billions-a-look-at-some-of-the-biggest-us-construction-projects-under/564093/

Port Covington is literally the creation of an entirely new (and wealthy) neighborhood in Baltimore. Something most other US cities could not do. Baltimore has a ton of potential. I just hope we take the poor and working class with us when we improve and not just push the lower income people out of the city like DC did.

[atomic]

51 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Good for you.   I don’t like going to games 3 hours early.   And for me, the presence of a lot of fans who have been drinking in the parking lot for three hours is a detriment.
 

About 15 years ago, I went to a Monday night game with a friend and our 10-year old sons.     Left my house (about 15 miles from FedEx) at 7 pm for a 9 pm game.    Took 1:45 to get to the parking area, where we paid $25 but still had to take a 10-15 minute bus ride to get to the stadium.     Took my son to the rest room, jam packed with drunk people shouting, cursing and shoving.    I was literally afraid my son might get crushed.    Then we had to leave the game barely after the 4th quarter started to have any hope of getting on one of the shuttle buses in time to be home before 1 a.m., which we just barely did.    Just a really lousy experience.    I’ve been to FedEx about 4 other times and it’s just inconvenient and a soulless building.    I’d much rather watch on TV than go there, whereas I’d much rather see a game at OPACY than on TV.

Yes atomic and his friends is a detriment.  I am sure us chatting while having a few beers is hurting you somehow. If you buy parking passes on stubhub you can park right next to the stadium.   Might cost you a $100 but it is worth it if you have friends to drink willing to drink with you.  There were 6 of us so less than 20 bucks a person. 

I am not sure why you are against tailgaiting. It happens at every stadium.  I myself wouldn't bring kids to Ravens games.  People are pretty intense at football games.  Not the same atmosphere as a baseball game.  Football is a sport better on TV than at the games.  I have had Ravens tickets at the 40 yard line lower level 20 rows up and still not that easy to watch the game.   Really if you are not tailgaiting probably not worth going. 

[Hallas]

1 minute ago, atomic said:

Yes atomic and his friends is a detriment.  I am sure us chatting while having a few beers is hurting you somehow. If you buy parking passes on stubhub you can park right next to the stadium.   Might cost you a $100 but it is worth it if you have friends to drink willing to drink with you.  There were 6 of us so less than 20 bucks a person. 

I am not sure why you are against tailgaiting. It happens at every stadium.  I myself wouldn't bring kids to Ravens games.  People are pretty intense at football games.  Not the same atmosphere as a baseball game.  Football is a sport better on TV than at the games.  I have had Ravens tickets at the 40 yard line lower level 20 rows up and still not that easy to watch the game.   Really if you are not tailgaiting probably not worth going. 

This isn't really a hill to die on, dude.  Frobby likes what he likes.  He's free to watch the games in the comfort of his own home, sipping on a glass of his favorite wine that he poured for himself.  You're free to go to tailgates with paint on your face and barbeque yourself Michelin-Star worthy ribs while downing 6 beers.

[Frobby]

3 minutes ago, atomic said:

Yes atomic and his friends is a detriment.  I am sure us chatting while having a few beers is hurting you somehow. If you buy parking passes on stubhub you can park right next to the stadium.   Might cost you a $100 but it is worth it if you have friends to drink willing to drink with you.  There were 6 of us so less than 20 bucks a person. 

I am not sure why you are against tailgaiting. It happens at every stadium.  I myself wouldn't bring kids to Ravens games.  People are pretty intense at football games.  Not the same atmosphere as a baseball game.  Football is a sport better on TV than at the games.  I have had Ravens tickets at the 40 yard line lower level 20 rows up and still not that easy to watch the game.   Really if you are not tailgaiting probably not worth going. 

My post wasn’t meant as a personal attack on you in any way. I explained that my experience with a lot of very drunk fans at the game was not a pleasant one.    That’s my beef.   Of course, I’d hate to think of how many people are driving home from the games while well over the legal limit for blood alcohol levels.   I’m sure it’s much higher than at baseball games, even though there are plenty of baseball fans who overindulge, too.

[Frobby]

5 minutes ago, Hallas said:

This isn't really a hill to die on, dude.  Frobby likes what he likes.  He's free to watch the games in the comfort of his own home, sipping on a glass of his favorite wine that he poured for himself.  You're free to go to tailgates with paint on your face and barbeque yourself Michelin-Star worthy ribs while downing 6 beers.

For the record, I’m much more of a beer drinker than a wine drinker.    Especially when watching sports.    

[atomic]

26 minutes ago, Frobby said:

My post wasn’t meant as a personal attack on you in any way. I explained that my experience with a lot of very drunk fans at the game was not a pleasant one.    That’s my beef.   Of course, I’d hate to think of how many people are driving home from the games while well over the legal limit for blood alcohol levels.   I’m sure it’s much higher than at baseball games, even though there are plenty of baseball fans who overindulge, too.

We had a designated driver.  I think you will find drunk fans at any NFL stadium.  It isn't specific to Fed Ex field.  

[Frobby]

17 minutes ago, atomic said:

We had a designated driver.  I think you will find drunk fans at any NFL stadium.  It isn't specific to Fed Ex field.  

That is undoubtedly true.    I do think that the traffic problems getting into FedEx are worse than at some other places, which then encourages people to arrive very early and therefore start drinking very early.    But, no doubt tailgating is a part of football culture and many people would be doing it even if there were no traffic difficulties.    So, point taken.   And I’m glad your group had a designated driver but I fear that there are plenty who do not.   

[Hallas]

2 hours ago, Frobby said:

For the record, I’m much more of a beer drinker than a wine drinker.    Especially when watching sports.    

My bad.  I'm sure you have a collection of craft beer growlers for game day.

[Satyr3206]

I've heard this moving stuff since I was young. When the great teams didn't draw a crowd. When the Colts moved out of town. When Jacob's went bankrupt. The O's are still in Baltimore. I'm not saying they won't move but I wouldn't bet on it. Like throwing your money away.

[Frobby]

1 hour ago, Hallas said:

My bad.  I'm sure you have a collection of craft beer growlers for game day.

Nah.    Just stray bottles of Leinenkugel, Corona, Heineken or whatever else is lying around.   If there’s craft beer in the house it’s because one of my kids brought it over and left some behind.   At restaurants, I like to have stout, but for some reason I don’t ever buy any for the house.    

[spiritof66]

6 hours ago, Frobby said:

For the record, I’m much more of a beer drinker than a wine drinker.    Especially when watching sports.    

There's something odd to me about drinking wine while watching a live sporting event. It might be OK for croquet or bocce, or tennis or even golf. Or an international soccer match between France and Italy.

Beer for a baseball or basketball game. Beer or whiskey (if it's cold) for football. I think the only time I drank whiskey at a baseball game was Game 2 of the 1979 World Series, when it snowed up in the cheap seats. (Back then, you could bring pretty much anything into the ballpark that wasn't alive or ticking.) I needed the whiskey more after the game than during it. Manny Sanguillen, sheesh. Really.