Waiving/non-tendering Villar: pro or con?

[SteveA]

16 hours ago, DirtyBird said:

If this allows Elias to cut Davis would anyone’s opinions change?

I don't see how there could be a possible connection.

[NCRaven]

2 minutes ago, SteveA said:

It's a guiding principle of the rebuild, so you will keep hearing it for a while.

After 14 years of patching in Jay Paytons and Cesar Izturiss and Mike DeJeans and that ilk to try to turn 63 win teams into 71 win teams (and usually failing to get to 71 wins anyway) I'm still very much on board with this plan. 

I don’t think that any reasonable person can compare those players with Villar.  Sour apples to a fairly juicy orange.

[SteveA]

1 minute ago, NCRaven said:

I don’t think that any reasonable person can compare those players with Villar.  Sour apples to a fairly juicy orange.

And I wasn't.   I was responding to someone who was sick of hearing "this guy won't be around when we are good..." in general.   And as I noted I voted no on the poll.

But it springs from the same philosophy.... don't spend unnecessary money on player salary until that money can make a difference enough to put a contender on the field.   And clearly we will not be a contender even with Villar next year, so I understand the philosophy even though I don't like giving him up for nothing or next to nothing.

Now the Astros showed when the time came, they WOULD spend money.   My biggest concern is that the Orioles won't spend it when the time comes.   That is a big concern.   But we don't have enough evidence one way or another on the Angelos brothers to draw a conclusion.    So for now we just have to hope for the best.

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

8 minutes ago, SteveA said:

And I wasn't.   I was responding to someone who was sick of hearing "this guy won't be around when we are good..." in general.   And as I noted I voted no on the poll.

But it springs from the same philosophy.... don't spend unnecessary money on player salary until that money can make a difference enough to put a contender on the field.   And clearly we will not be a contender even with Villar next year, so I understand the philosophy even though I don't like giving him up for nothing or next to nothing.

Now the Astros showed when the time came, they WOULD spend money.   My biggest concern is that the Orioles won't spend it when the time comes.   That is a big concern.   But we don't have enough evidence one way or another on the Angelos brothers to draw a conclusion.    So for now we just have to hope for the best.

Orioles had the tenth highest team payroll in 2016. I don’t see a reason to think ownership won’t spend money when the Orioles are competitive.

https://www.spotrac.com/mlb/payroll/2016/

[Frobby]

1 hour ago, Can_of_corn said:

The money goes to the people who own MASN. 

The majority owner of MASN is Baltimore Orioles, LP.

[NCRaven]

Maybe father wanted one last run.  Maybe sons just want profit.  Maybe.

[SteveA]

2 minutes ago, OsFanSinceThe80s said:

Orioles had the tenth highest team payroll in 2016. I don’t see a reason to think ownership won’t spend money when the Orioles are competitive.

https://www.spotrac.com/mlb/payroll/2016/

Sons are in charge now, essentially different ownership.

[SteveA]

Just now, NCRaven said:

Maybe father wanted one last run.  Maybe sons just want profit.  Maybe.

Yep, I'm not saying it's the case, or even that it's likely.   But it has to be a concern in the back of our minds.

[Frobby]

43 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

Agreed ...still a bad move by a Buffoon!

There’s a board rule against name-calling even when directed at team management.    You don’t like the move, we get it!    I don’t particularly like it either.   

[maybenxtyr]

1 hour ago, sportsfan8703 said:

Sometimes the best moves are no moves. We’re not in a position to be buyers or start guys clocks. It’s going to be the same way in 2020. 

Look forward to 2021 when we’ll likely have a homegrown rotation(for better or worse), and Mountcastle, Hays, Diaz all in the lineup with Adley not far away. 

The only thing I disagree with is any concerns over "clocks". They really don't have a talent that should be worth that concern.

Most MiL talent in this organization will be valuable if they become a ML contributor and can be traded for more prospects. There's just not enough talent in this organization to put a timetable on being competitive.

[section18]

Arbitration-eligible Orioles ahead of Monday’s deadline include infielder Hanser Alberto, outfielder Trey Mancini, starting pitcher Dylan Bundy and relievers Mychal Givens, Miguel Castro and Richard Bleier.

Anyone else leaving by Monday?

Bundy, Givens and Mancini a longshot.

[7Mo]

9 minutes ago, section18 said:

Arbitration-eligible Orioles ahead of Monday’s deadline include infielder Hanser Alberto, outfielder Trey Mancini, starting pitcher Dylan Bundy and relievers Mychal Givens, Miguel Castro and Richard Bleier.

Anyone else leaving by Monday?

Bundy, Givens and Mancini a longshot.

My guess is Bundy is traded by Monday afternoon. I think everyone else stays for the time being. 

[tntoriole]

5 hours ago, Enjoy Terror said:

That’s fine. You SHOULD be upset. You should hold onto your money. If the Orioles were a restaurant you wouldn’t take your family there!

I didn’t go to any games or watch them on TV this past season (cord cut). I’m not mad about it, I have much in my life to do and be passionate about. I think, personally, the on field product of this team has been terrible for 35 years save for twelve scattered winning seasons and 5 playoff teams.

I trust that Elias has a plan, and I’ve seen evidence of those things; international scouting and signings, analytics team hirings, old guard employees being removed. This is all stuff we’ve begged for. This was a fundamentally broken organization that started with the people running the show and ended on the field and permeated the culture. I am extremely excited to see the new machine start winning games, because I think it was built to win games for a long time.

The Jonathan Villar move is so “whatever” it’s hard to imagine why anyone cares who’s going to help us win 50-60 games next year. And I’ve said it before, if you’re only NOW threatening to hold onto your money because of the on field product, what exactly have you been watching for 35 years? 

 

I agree and have generally been a strong supporter of Elias and the rebuild.  And I agree about the changes made, but still none of that ultimately means anything without winning.  And actually I have been watching for 55 years...lol.    And lucky enough to have seen teams that were historically as good as any team in baseball history.  If Elias can come anywhere close to the 1966-1983 era when we won more games than any team in MLB, then, yes, we all will be happy.  But that is a very big IF.  

[Camden_yardbird]

I don't think $10 million saved this year is $10 million to be spent next year.  Its $10 million that may go into player development but is more likely just money not spent.  It's a whole lot of BS is what it is. The fact is the team didnt want to spend $10 million for the chance of acquiring some mid level prospects.  The fact that he cant be traded right now doesnt mean he wouldnt have value at some later time when a team lost a player to injury or other circumstances dictated.

[FanSince88]

Two thoughts about this.

1) This speaks volumes about the sorry state of contemporary MLB baseball.  20 years ago, and definitely 30 years ago, teams would be falling over themselves to give us a top 100-200 prospect for a 20/40 guy Villar who can play multiple infield positions.  Now the analytics nerds are obsessed with three-true-outcomes oafs who can barely jog and are about as fun to watch as waiting for paint to dry.  His one year, 10 million salary is an enormous bargain for a guy with his skill set who posted 4 WAR last year.  

2) Despite the extant factors about the MLB that may have prevented the Orioles from getting a good deal, I would have appreciated the front office throwing us fans a bone by bringing Villar back.  He's an interesting guy to watch play the game.  I am not looking forward to watching Wilkerson or whatever comparative scrub they stick at second base.  His salary is a huge bargain and we would at least be able to do a salary dump on July 31 if nothing else.  I get that there's a long term plan in play here, and that's totally fine, but in the meantime is it really too much to ask to keep ONE guy on the diamond at a bargain price who isn't a snoozefest to watch?  I'd be happy to get a few more wins and a lot more fun with Villar, even if it means (gasp) "settling" for the #2 pick in the 2021 draft.  I trust Elias's long term plan, but in the short run, just how empty do these guys want Camden Yards to get?