Buck interviewing for Astros job

[Moose Milligan]

4 minutes ago, Philip said:

He doesn’t appear to be so far. Remember, I didn’t create this image out of whole cloth, Buck did himself.

and the stats issue isn’t the only issue of concern.

Would you still feel this way if he brought Britton in during the playoff game?  

Philip, you're a smart guy.  Pay attention.  The Astros, most likely, brought Buck in for an interview because they had initial conversations to see if there was a match between them on a surface level.  

You saying that there's no way Buck could change is kind of the pot calling the kettle black.

[sportsfan8703]

24 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

Would you still feel this way if he brought Britton in during the playoff game?  

Philip, you're a smart guy.  Pay attention.  The Astros, most likely, brought Buck in for an interview because they had initial conversations to see if there was a match between them on a surface level.  

You saying that there's no way Buck could change is kind of the pot calling the kettle black.

Well he wouldn't have to make that decision with the Astros because they won't be in a WC game, and wouldn't be completely shut down by a "has been" like Liriano.  

[HowAboutThat]

1 hour ago, Moose Milligan said:

Would you still feel this way if he brought Britton in during the playoff game?  

Philip, you're a smart guy.  Pay attention.  The Astros, most likely, brought Buck in for an interview because they had initial conversations to see if there was a match between them on a surface level.  

You saying that there's no way Buck could change is kind of the pot calling the kettle black.

The Britton decision is actually the last thing I think of when being annoyed with Buck. Letting Manny play short, the Tillman Situation, having a plethora of 1B/DH types but no utility infielder, among others, are more concerning.

I never said Buck couldn’t change, nor did I even imply such a thing. I said that so far he hasn’t expressed any confidence in advanced stats or interest in learning them.

[Moose Milligan]

2 minutes ago, Philip said:

The Britton decision is actually the last thing I think of when being annoyed with Buck. Letting Manny play short, the Tillman Situation, having a plethora of 1B/DH types but no utility infielder, among others, are more concerning.

I never said Buck couldn’t change, nor did I even imply such a thing. I said that so far he hasn’t expressed any confidence in advanced stats or interest in learning them.

Right, but no ones really doing deep dives with Buck and seeing if he's actually changed or is interested in learning them.  I think he has because he's gotten an interview with a team that values advanced metrics.  But no ones going out of their way to stick a mic in his face to see if he's changed his mind about them because...well, its not anything that needs reporting.

[eddie83]

I don’t think Buck has to change all that much in Houston. This is a lineup that pretty much writes itself. There is no way he will have the horsepower he did in Baltimore anyway. He will have no choice but to go along with the program to an extent. This is a built to win now team and the narrative will be the players trying to prove they are good without cheating. This is probably a 3 year job. At some point that roster will start to flip and by then a younger manager that fits that organization will take over.  

This isn’t a job for the long haul. It’s about knowing how to handle a team and credibility.  

[Frobby]

3 hours ago, Philip said:

He doesn’t appear to be so far. Remember, I didn’t create this image out of whole cloth, Buck did himself.

and the stats issue isn’t the only issue of concern.

I’d like to see the quotes from Buck that show him being against using stats.    The worst I can recall him saying is that stats aren’t the only thing you look at.   This interview pretty well sums up his views:   https://blogs.fangraphs.com/the-managers-perspective-buck-showalter-on-the-changing-game/

[HowAboutThat]

16 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I’d like to see the quotes from Buck that show him being against using stats.    The worst I can recall him saying is that stats aren’t the only thing you look at.   This interview pretty well sums up his views:   https://blogs.fangraphs.com/the-managers-perspective-buck-showalter-on-the-changing-game/

I remember reading them multiple times, or I would not claim otherwise, and I just did a Google search “Buck Showalter’s comments on advanced stats” And the only thing I found was a little preview saying that buck claims that Matt Wieters is a superior catcher because he’s good at catching foul tips for third strikes, But I can’t even find that again to make sure I got the quote correct.

So yes I’ve read Disparaging comments from buck multiple times, but no, unfortunately I cannot find any of them at the moment

[Can_of_corn]

2 hours ago, Frobby said:

I’d like to see the quotes from Buck that show him being against using stats.    The worst I can recall him saying is that stats aren’t the only thing you look at.   This interview pretty well sums up his views:   https://blogs.fangraphs.com/the-managers-perspective-buck-showalter-on-the-changing-game/

I don't have a quote handy but I do recall hearing that he served as a buffer between the players (Jones in this case) and the Orioles' analytic team.  To me that indicates that he wasn't totally onboard with what the analytics team was trying to do.

[makoman]

55 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I don't have a quote handy but I do recall hearing that he served as a buffer between the players (Jones in this case) and the Orioles' analytic team.  To me that indicates that he wasn't totally onboard with what the analytics team was trying to do.

Yeah I thought for sure that the analytics folks wanted Jones to change his positioning, Jones disagreed, and Buck apparently didn’t make him which showed how Buck felt about analytics if true. I could certainly be misremembering that. 

[Frobby]

5 minutes ago, makoman said:

Yeah I thought for sure that the analytics folks wanted Jones to change his positioning, Jones disagreed, and Buck apparently didn’t make him which showed how Buck felt about analytics if true. I could certainly be misremembering that. 

Jones was a very good player, but stubborn about certain things.    Buck may have decided it wasn’t worth putting Jones in positions in which he wasn’t comfortable even if analytically correct.    I do recall one year Jones did change his positioning and it didn’t help his defensive metrics at all.   

[HowAboutThat]

4 hours ago, Moose Milligan said:

Right, but no ones really doing deep dives with Buck and seeing if he's actually changed or is interested in learning them.  I think he has because he's gotten an interview with a team that values advanced metrics.  But no ones going out of their way to stick a mic in his face to see if he's changed his mind about them because...well, its not anything that needs reporting.

I don’t disagree with that, but the point is if you don’t have any new information, you have to rely on the old information. I haven’t implied or claimed anything about buck’s current opinions about anything, and I don’t think he had any control over the Orioles archaic training setup.

And we don’t know why the Astros have interviewed him. I find it mildly curious that They consider a manager more important then a general manager, maybe it’s because of the time crunch right now.

[Pushmonkey]

Remind me again why this is in the Os section not the mlb section?

[Can_of_corn]

14 minutes ago, Pushmonkey said:

Remind me again why this is in the Os section not the mlb section?

More page views.

[Gatoriole]

3 hours ago, Frobby said:

I’d like to see the quotes from Buck that show him being against using stats.    The worst I can recall him saying is that stats aren’t the only thing you look at.   This interview pretty well sums up his views:   https://blogs.fangraphs.com/the-managers-perspective-buck-showalter-on-the-changing-game/

For the vast majority of Buck's career, he was a forward-thinking manager. Going back to the late 90s/early 00s, I believe he changed the way outfielders were positioned (harder to find something to back this up; it is based on memory). Early in his Orioles tenure, we were early adopters of the infield shift. In 2014, his use of Andrew Miller out of the bullpen changed the way teams used the bullpen in the playoffs. From 2012-2016, he utilized his bullpen better than any manager in baseball (save the '16 Wild Card game that everyone is so upset about). 

Buck is obviously an analytical thinker. His problem is that (in all likelihood) most of his information was based on his own anecdotal observations. That was good enough until the last 5-10 years as the available data became larger and larger. All of a sudden, computers could run scenarios with better information than Buck's personal experience.

We have heard that he was not receptive to data later in his Orioles tenure. But we know that we had a tiny analytics department that did not keep up with the league. We don't know whether the information that came to Buck from our analytics group as worthwhile.

[sportsfan8703]

Wasn’t Buck like the 2nd MLB manager to use the shift?

He wasn’t so “get off my lawn”. I think people read too much into his postgame interviews. At least he doesn’t just spout cliches.