Jose Iglesias traded to Angels.

[HowAboutThat]

3 hours ago, Number5 said:

Actually, IIRC, they told the coaches that they let go that is was about the money.  It appears that it was, in fact, based on what coaches they really wanted, IMO.

They said it was about money, so the coaches wouldn’t have to say it was because they had sucked when they were looking for other work. One guy was let go because his position was being eliminated, so whether he sucked or not was moot. But no, it wasn’t about money, at least money was a peripheral benefit.

[Sports Guy]

29 minutes ago, Philip said:

Three syllables! Points for you! But still wrong...

No, you dont hold back elite college prospects when they shown they are ready.  That’s just terrible management of players.  It looks bad to the organization and it could hurt any future negotiations with the player . The “extra year” you gain in 2021 is waiting until late April to call him up.  After that, you get him up.  

[Can_of_corn]

5 hours ago, Philip said:

They said it was about money, so the coaches wouldn’t have to say it was because they had sucked when they were looking for other work. One guy was let go because his position was being eliminated, so whether he sucked or not was moot. But no, it wasn’t about money, at least money was a peripheral benefit.

Or they said it was about money because it was about money.  We know they consolidated what was two roles into one.

[Roll Tide]

7 hours ago, Sports Guy said:

No, you dont hold back elite college prospects when they shown they are ready.  That’s just terrible management of players.  It looks bad to the organization and it could hurt any future negotiations with the player . The “extra year” you gain in 2021 is waiting until late April to call him up.  After that, you get him up.  

So it 2019 he hit .254 mostly in low A and rookie ball. He touched Delmarva and the Gulf coast league and hit .154. In either case he wasn’t lighting the world on fire. 2020 was an off year due to COVID where he worked out a Bowie bit played 0 competitive baseball. I don’t see why you would start him any higher than Frederick. Quite frankly I’d send him back to Delmarva. If he hits .315-.330 in a half season there send him to Frederick. If he produces similar numbers at Frederick he can start 2022 at Bowie.....if you start him at Frederick then he’d finish the year at Bowie ....not withstanding him hitting .400 or something crazy. There is no need to promote him to the Orioles this year ...None....Nada! 
 

EDIT: So nothing he has done so far indicates he’s forcing the issue. And there should be no urgency to rush him considering where we likely are in the standings...besides it’s “terrible management “ to rush players who aren’t ready.

[Roll Tide]

To add on .... Many here are calling for Diaz who hit .260 in AA. He did OPS .805 in that time. But, I don’t think that punch’s his ticket. You could send to AAA but I’d argue that he start at AA. Give me + .285/.350/.850 for a promotion. Send him to AAA and ask for similar production. No reason to rush him to place for a 100 loss team. 

[Sports Guy]

53 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

So it 2019 he hit .254 mostly in low A and rookie ball. He touched Delmarva and the Gulf coast league and hit .154. In either case he wasn’t lighting the world on fire. 2020 was an off year due to COVID where he worked out a Bowie bit played 0 competitive baseball. I don’t see why you would start him any higher than Frederick. Quite frankly I’d send him back to Delmarva. If he hits .315-.330 in a half season there send him to Frederick. If he produces similar numbers at Frederick he can start 2022 at Bowie.....if you start him at Frederick then he’d finish the year at Bowie ....not withstanding him hitting .400 or something crazy. There is no need to promote him to the Orioles this year ...None....Nada! 
 

EDIT: So nothing he has done so far indicates he’s forcing the issue. And there should be no urgency to rush him considering where we likely are in the standings...besides it’s “terrible management “ to rush players who aren’t ready.

Yes, if his performance isn’t good, you don’t move him quickly.  That goes without saying.

There is plenty of reason to promote him this year if he shows himself to be as good as advertised.  

[Sports Guy]

1 minute ago, Roll Tide said:

To add on .... Many here are calling for Diaz who hit .260 in AA. He did OPS .805 in that time. But, I don’t think that punch’s his ticket. You could send to AAA but I’d argue that he start at AA. Give me + .285/.350/.850 for a promotion. Send him to AAA and ask for similar production. No reason to rush him to place for a 100 loss team. 

Your expectations of what a player needs to do in the minors are just unrealistic.  
 

Not to mention, Diaz is getting older..you don’t just keep them in the minors forever. Part of how this team gets better is because these guys are in the majors and performing.  Should we never bring players up?  Do you think we just have to wait until they are 500 or better?  How do you think that record is going to get accomplished?

The young players in this organization are the ONLY WAY this teams gets back to be really good.  It will not happen any other way.  So, by your thought process, we will never bring up any of the players because this team will never be good without them.  

[wildcard]

Elias takes the long view.   He looks at when the team will have enough talent to contend consistently.   Its not hard to see that his contend team probably includes Henderson and Westburg in the infield.  Whoever plays in the  infield until they arrive are fillers.   What are they - 2 years away?  2023?

I'd have to think the Adley will not be in Baltimore to play until 2022.

He saw Iglesias as a trade chip because the team is not ready to contend and Jose was probably not going to repeat his offense in 2021.  Trade him at a high point.

Mancini probably goes the same way.  If he is having a good year in July he is probably traded at the deadline.  

[Frobby]

5 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

Or they said it was about money because it was about money.  We know they consolidated what was two roles into one.

But they are hiring someone to work under Holt on the minor league side as minor league pitching coordinator.   https://www.masnsports.com/school-of-roch/2020/11/updates-on-new-position-third-base-coach-ptbnl-and-more.html
 

My assumption is (1) Holt gets a raise and may or may not be making as much as Brocail was before, and (2) the new MiL guy gets less than Holt was getting before.   There is probably some net savings in there, but it may not be that much.   

[Sports Guy]

Any recent examples of elite college bats that were left in the minors for an extra year despite a high performance in the upper minors?

[Frobby]

1 hour ago, Roll Tide said:

To add on .... Many here are calling for Diaz who hit .260 in AA. He did OPS .805 in that time. But, I don’t think that punch’s his ticket. You could send to AAA but I’d argue that he start at AA. Give me + .285/.350/.850 for a promotion. Send him to AAA and ask for similar production. No reason to rush him to place for a 100 loss team. 

My recollection is that Diaz’s production at Bowie in 2019 was slightly better than Mountcastle’s at Norfolk when you adjust for run scoring environment in the two leagues that year.    I don’t think there’s any possibility Diaz will return to Bowie next season.   

[Roll Tide]

1 hour ago, Sports Guy said:

Yes, if his performance isn’t good, you don’t move him quickly.  That goes without saying.

There is plenty of reason to promote him this year if he shows himself to be as good as advertised.  

But he hasn’t yet at a lower level. What possible reason would you need to rush him? I know you didn’t say that but. Earn the promotion to the next level .... perform well .... move up. I don’t think anyone is arguing a merited promotion. But so far he’s earned a return trip to A ball. AA if your crediting his time in the extra Bowie camp. I’m not ....and I don’t expect Elias to considering he’s already waived the white flag in his interview and actions, which was trading arguably his best player.

 

1 hour ago, Sports Guy said:

Your expectations of what a player needs to do in the minors are just unrealistic.  
 

Not to mention, Diaz is getting older..you don’t just keep them in the minors forever. Part of how this team gets better is because these guys are in the majors and performing.  Should we never bring players up?  Do you think we just have to wait until they are 500 or better?  How do you think that record is going to get accomplished?

The young players in this organization are the ONLY WAY this teams gets back to be really good.  It will not happen any other way.  So, by your thought process, we will never bring up any of the players because this team will never be good without them.  

If he can’t perform in the minors why would anyone be optimistic about his chances in the majors. If he gets to the time in the process where you have to promote or cut him then fine. Bring him up! 
 

But, in the past the Orioles rushed guys, brought them up before they earned it and then watched them struggle mightily.

 

If he can’t produce the numbers I mentioned in the minors at an advanced age then he’s likely a bust anyway.

 

BTW, BB reference has his age diff in 2019 at Bowie as -2.1. So really he’s not being held back. By my calculation he’d be right on track for Bowie this season, No?

 

So again ...he’s done nothing to press the agenda to justify moving forward the process.

[Roll Tide]

3 minutes ago, Frobby said:

My recollection is that Diaz’s production at Bowie in 2019 was slightly better than Mountcastle’s at Norfolk when you adjust for run scoring environment in the two leagues that year.    I don’t think there’s any possibility Diaz will return to Bowie next season.   

You could be right .... that still doesn’t justify bringing him to the majors until he earns it. 

[Frobby]

1 minute ago, Roll Tide said:

You could be right .... that still doesn’t justify bringing him to the majors until he earns it. 

I’m fine with that.   There’s no big hurry unless some players get hurt.    

[Sports Guy]

16 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

But he hasn’t yet at a lower level. What possible reason would you need to rush him? I know you didn’t say that but. Earn the promotion to the next level .... perform well .... move up. I don’t think anyone is arguing a merited promotion. But so far he’s earned a return trip to A ball. AA if your crediting his time in the extra Bowie camp. I’m not ....and I don’t expect Elias to considering he’s already waived the white flag in his interview and actions, which was trading arguably his best player.

 

If he can’t perform in the minors why would anyone be optimistic about his chances in the majors. If he gets to the time in the process where you have to promote or cut him then fine. Bring him up! 
 

But, in the past the Orioles rushed guys, brought them up before they earned it and then watched them struggle mightily.

 

If he can’t produce the numbers I mentioned in the minors at an advanced age then he’s likely a bust anyway.

 

BTW, BB reference has his age diff in 2019 at Bowie as -2.1. So really he’s not being held back. By my calculation he’d be right on track for Bowie this season, No?

 

So again ...he’s done nothing to press the agenda to justify moving forward the process.

I don’t know why you keep saying this.  It’s obvious that if he doesn’t perform, he doesn’t come up.  There is no need to mention the same thing over and over and over again. 
 

This is like saying, if you don’t breathe, you will die.  We get it.  
 

That’s not the issue being discussed.

And btw the term “rushed” is a fallacy.