Rebuild mode or Sell mode?

[maybenxtyr]

The general argument that I disagree with is that there will be some magical switch to turn on once this guy or that guy is ready. By doing that you could potentially waste a year or two of production from the guys you are waiting on if there's no talent available, or they won't take the O's money. I think it would be smarter to identify and start filling holes that they know for sure they can't fill internally. I really don't care about saving them money as a fan... there's no guarantee that they will do anything with it other than keep it. I know people have already had that argument.

[jabba72]

34 minutes ago, maybenxtyr said:

The general argument that I disagree with is that there will be some magical switch to turn on once this guy or that guy is ready. By doing that you could potentially waste a year or two of production from the guys you are waiting on if there's no talent available, or they won't take the O's money. I think it would be smarter to identify and start filling holes that they know for sure they can't fill internally. I really don't care about saving them money as a fan... there's no guarantee that they will do anything with it other than keep it. I know people have already had that argument.

Yeah, im a little worried about 2B, 3B and SS. The internal options arent here, and may not be for a few more years. With Rutchsman on the team next year, Elias needs to start making some effort at filling these positions with Major League talent. 

[wildcard]

1 hour ago, maybenxtyr said:

The general argument that I disagree with is that there will be some magical switch to turn on once this guy or that guy is ready. By doing that you could potentially waste a year or two of production from the guys you are waiting on if there's no talent available, or they won't take the O's money. I think it would be smarter to identify and start filling holes that they know for sure they can't fill internally. I really don't care about saving them money as a fan... there's no guarantee that they will do anything with it other than keep it. I know people have already had that argument.

The stated goal for this season is to accumulate young talent.   The best way to do that is draft high.  Its counter  productive to bring high quality stop gap talent  this year.   That just makes it harder to get  high draft choices.

Flipping a switch just means that the approach is changed from trying to get the highest draft choice to trying to win.   It will take several seasons to get the players they want but the team should get better each season.   Meanwhile Rodriguez, Hall, Henderson, Westburg  and their 2021 and 2022 high draft choices will move close to joining the O's.

 

[maybenxtyr]

29 minutes ago, wildcard said:

The stated goal for this season is to accumulate young talent.   The best way to do that is draft high.  Its counter  productive to bring high quality stop gap talent  this year.   That just makes it harder to get  high draft choices.

Flipping a switch just means that the approach is changed from trying to get the highest draft choice to trying to win.   It will take several seasons to get the players they want but the team should get better each season.   Meanwhile Rodriguez, Hall, Henderson, Westburg  and their 2021 and 2022 high draft choices will move close to joining the O's.

 

There are teams that continually draft in the bottom half and they are able to identify high quality in those spots. There's nothing we can say or do to convince each other...I don't believe anyone is suggesting spending in the top tier market. Not of every move/signing needs to be a stopgap either. 

[wildcard]

36 minutes ago, maybenxtyr said:

There are teams that continually draft in the bottom half and they are able to identify high quality in those spots. There's nothing we can say or do to convince each other...I don't believe anyone is suggesting spending in the top tier market. Not of every move/signing needs to be a stopgap either. 

Elias has shown where the top of his spending on FA is likely to be with the Iglesias acquisition last year.  2.5 -3m on a one year contract with an option.  He has said probably no multi year contracts.   

He is likely to stick to his plan.

[Sports Guy]

1 hour ago, wildcard said:

The stated goal for this season is to accumulate young talent.   The best way to do that is draft high.  Its counter  productive to bring high quality stop gap talent  this year.   That just makes it harder to get  high draft choices.

Flipping a switch just means that the approach is changed from trying to get the highest draft choice to trying to win.   It will take several seasons to get the players they want but the team should get better each season.   Meanwhile Rodriguez, Hall, Henderson, Westburg  and their 2021 and 2022 high draft choices will move close to joining the O's.

 

Where did they draft Hall, Rodriguez, Henderson. Etc...?

[HowAboutThat]

Grey-Rod was #11, I think. I’m not sure which hall you are referring to, but I think all those guys were first rounders except Henderson who was first pick in the second round.

@maybenxtyr Is correct that we should target future areas of need, but it might be too early to do that.

Best player available, balanced with cost considerations of course. But if you’ve got good players you can always trade them.Best player available, balanced with cost considerations of course. But if you’ve got good players you can always trade them.

Edited January 2, 2021 by Philip

[Sports Guy]

4 minutes ago, Philip said:

Grey-Rod was #11, I think. I’m not sure which hall you are referring to, but I think all those guys were first rounders except Henderson who was first pick in the second round.

@maybenxtyr Is correct that we should target future areas of need, but it might be too early to do that.

Best player available, balanced with cost considerations of course. But if you’ve got good players you can always trade them.Best player available, balanced with cost considerations of course. But if you’ve got good players you can always trade them.

1). I know where the guys were drafted.  My point was that none of them were really high picks.

2) if you can get them for the right price, it’s never too early to obtain pieces that can help you win.

[HowAboutThat]

24 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

1). I know where the guys were drafted.  My point was that none of them were really high picks.

2) if you can get them for the right price, it’s never too early to obtain pieces that can help you win.

Oh I don’t disagree with that at all.

The Cardinals never have a single digit draft pick, but every year from year to year they have a good team. They don’t have to worry about feast or famine, They just do what they do and always have a good team.

[wildcard]

1 hour ago, Sports Guy said:

Where did they draft Hall, Rodriguez, Henderson. Etc...?

What does that have to do with Elias is doing?   You may not agree with what he is doing but that is how he proceeding.  He is accumulating the best talent he can which means high draft choices.   Listen to his videos.  He is pretty clear about how he is going about it.   

What you would like to see happen and what Elias is doing is two different approaches.  But his will be executed.   Unless he can do something I am not aware of yours will not.

[Sports Guy]

5 minutes ago, wildcard said:

What does that have to do with Elias is doing?   You may not agree with what he is doing but that is how he proceeding.  He is accumulating the best talent he can which means high draft choices.   Listen to his videos.  He is pretty clear about how he is going about it.   

What you would like to see happen and what Elias is doing is two different approaches.  But his will be executed.   Unless he can do something I am not aware of yours will not.

Actually, Elias is doing largely what I want him to do.  
 

But at this point, he shouldn’t be throwing by the season to draft in the top 5 and no fan should be accepting of that either.  A few years ago?  Great, absolutely tank.  Now?  Not so much.

[wildcard]

33 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Actually, Elias is doing largely what I want him to do.  
 

But at this point, he shouldn’t be throwing by the season to draft in the top 5 and no fan should be accepting of that either.  A few years ago?  Great, absolutely tank.  Now?  Not so much.

Seems like I have heard that from you before.

[Sports Guy]

54 minutes ago, wildcard said:

Seems like I have heard that from you before.

Yep because you brought up the same stuff you keep bringing up and since you quoted me, I responded to you.  
 

i guess I will just have to wait for you to start a thread about someone who had 27 really good at bats and how they should start for us.  Can’t wait!

[NCRaven]

I believe that Elias will largely do what SG is suggesting, but probably not at the level that SG would like to see.  I think he'll sign a starter, but it may be another Milone on a minor league deal.  I think he may add some bullpen help on a similar deal.  And, he'll likely bring in a shortstop on a similar or lesser deal as Iglesias got last year.  I'm not expecting more and don't really want more this year.  When we hit 2022 though, I'll probably be ready to join the "time to spend some money" or make a significant trade crowds.

[weams]

23 minutes ago, NCRaven said:

I believe that Elias will largely do what SG is suggesting, but probably not at the level that SG would like to see.  I think he'll sign a starter, but it may be another Milone on a minor league deal.  I think he may add some bullpen help on a similar deal.  And, he'll likely bring in a shortstop on a similar or lesser deal as Iglesias got last year.  I'm not expecting more and don't really want more this year.  When we hit 2022 though, I'll probably be ready to join the "time to spend some money" or make a significant trade crowds.

Once we have a new CBA and full fan attendance with no pandemic protocols I expect to see increased spending. On the MLB product.