OF Derek Fisher DFA - Any Interest?

[HowAboutThat]

43 minutes ago, wildcard said:

Holt taught John Means his change up which made him a good major league starter.  Lopez has a 94 mph fastball and sinker.  Would a better change up make him a good major league starter?  I don't know  but that is what ST is for.

Sulser looked like a good reliever coming into last season.  He was clearly not up to being a rookie closer.   But can he be a good middle reliever?   I don't know but I do know the Hyde loves the guys stuff.  

Goudeau is likely DFA'd to make room for Felix Hernandez.

Pitching is very important.   Elias has put the analytics and coaches together to improve pitchers.   It will be interesting to see how much they can help pitchers in the 6 weeks of ST.    Fisher reminds me of Trumbo in the outfield.  The O's have better outfielder in Santander, Hays, Mullins, Diaz and from what we saw last year in a small sample from Mountcastle.  Fisher's value if he has value to the O's is his bat which is probably best used a DH.

Right now the DH role is projected to be  a combination of Stewart, Mancini, Mountcastle, Diaz  and Santander when he needs a rest from the outfield.   There is depth there.  That is why I think keeping pitchers is more important than claiming Fisher.  If he becomes a FA and Elias can signs him to a minor league contract that would be adding depth.

Why are you so sure Hernandez makes the team? He’s terrible, I love the guy he’s had a wonderful career, but he’s terrible now.

I think it’s far more likely that one of our rule five guys sticks.

[Can_of_corn]

6 minutes ago, wildcard said:

Yes.  But the only time Means talked in the article it was about how Holt helped him.

And yet you have an aversion to crediting more than Holt for Means' success?

OK then.

I think a large part of Means' success is his desire to improve and his willingness to put in work outside of what is required by the team.

 

[wildcard]

6 minutes ago, Philip said:

Why are you so sure Hernandez makes the team? He’s terrible, I love the guy he’s had a wonderful career, but he’s terrible now.

I think it’s far more likely that one of our rule five guys sticks.

I am not sure how long Felix will pitch before he is injured but for the last 2 years he pitched better than LeBlanc or Lopez for the first month to so.   And would like to see Zimmermann have more than 7 starts at AAA.  I think more time at AAA will give him a better chance that when he is promote to the O's he come up and stay in the majors.

Here is what happen the two years he pitched.  

2019   March/April   1-2,  4.31 ERA,  6 S, 31.1 IP, 36 H   29 SO, 1.277 WHIP

Then strained his right shoulder and went on the IL

2018 March/April   3-2,  4.96 ERA,  6 S,  32.2, 30 H, 26 SO,   1.286 WHIP

2018 1st half    8-7   5.13 ERA, 19 S,   105 IP,   108 H,  87 SO,  1.367 WHIP

Then a back injury

 

[LookinUp]

59 minutes ago, DrinkinWithFermi said:

I'm sure I am in the minority on this but I would rather just give DJ Stewart everyday ABs than add another reclamation project like Fisher to an already fairly crowded COF/DH mix.

On argument against this is that our guys have already had a chance to work with Stewart. May feel like they've made of him what they can make of him, whereas Fisher might be a clean slate with a clearly correctable problem.

I actually really like Stewart's OBP too, so I agree that I wouldn't just jettison the guy by any means.

[Tony-OH]

2 hours ago, OsFanSinceThe80s said:

Elias has enough gravitas that if he wants to take a chance on Fisher, I'll take his word for it given Elias' history with Fisher in the Astros organization. If Fisher can be signed to a minor league deal, that's what I would prefer because I think the odds are against him becoming a legitimate major leaguer. 

No argument from me. The perfect situation would be he makes it through waivers and can be signed to a minor league contract with a spring training invite.

[joelala]

5 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

No argument from me. The perfect situation would be he makes it through waivers and can be signed to a minor league contract with a spring training invite.

I tend to think that’s a very real possibility. 

[Tony-OH]

3 minutes ago, LookinUp said:

On argument against this is that our guys have already had a chance to work with Stewart. May feel like they've made of him what they can make of him, whereas Fisher might be a clean slate with a clearly correctable problem.

I actually really like Stewart's OBP too, so I agree that I wouldn't just jettison the guy by any means.

But as we know, this has nothing to do with jettisoning Stewart to pick up Fischer. I haven't seen anyone remotely say that and I certainly would not. This is about giving our coaches a a guy who hits the ball hard and see what they can do with him. If they can't do anything, you DFA at the end of spring training and probably get him through to the minors where they will have decent depth piece.

Fischer doesn't get in the way of anyone currently in the system but adds to the depth. Honestly, my bigger concern is his defense but maybe there was something bothering last year when it seems his defense really feel off a cliff.

[HowAboutThat]

9 minutes ago, wildcard said:

I am not sure how long Felix will pitch before he is injured but for the last 2 years he pitched better than LeBlanc or Lopez for the first month to so.   And would like to see Zimmermann have more than 7 starts at AAA.  I think more time at AAA will give him a better chance that when he is promote to the O's he come up and stay in the majors.

Here is what happen the two years he pitched.  

2019   March/April   1-2,  4.31 ERA,  6 S, 31.1 IP, 36 H   29 SO, 1.277 WHIP

Then strained his right shoulder and went on the IL

2018 March/April   3-2,  4.96 ERA,  6 S,  32.2, 30 H, 26 SO,   1.286 WHIP

2018 1st half    8-7   5.13 ERA, 19 S,   105 IP,   108 H,  87 SO,  1.367 WHIP

Then a back injury

 

You are assuming I want LeBlanc or Lopez either. I don’t mind giving Lopez another shot, but not LeBlanc, and not Felix. Don’t get me wrong, if he pitches well, of course we can make room for them, my personal feeling is that he will not, and we should be focusing on the guys who are part of our future instead of needless stop gaps. There’s a reason Felix signed with the Orioles instead of anybody else and that is almost certainly because nobody else was terribly interested. 
Baumann and Lowther have had AA success, and it’s not at all unreasonable for them to skip AAA. I’m still expecting to see Zimmermann get meaningful starts. If they want to place service time shenanigans, there’s no reason not to use Lopez or Sceroler or even try Valdez for a bit. Now is the time for auditions, and no better audition than the real thing. We don’t need the Wade LeBlancs of the world, and god bless him, we don’t need King Felix either.

[wildcard]

14 minutes ago, Philip said:

You are assuming I want LeBlanc or Lopez either. I don’t mind giving Lopez another shot, but not LeBlanc, and not Felix. Don’t get me wrong, if he pitches well, of course we can make room for them, my personal feeling is that he will not, and we should be focusing on the guys who are part of our future instead of needless stop gaps. There’s a reason Felix signed with the Orioles instead of anybody else and that is almost certainly because nobody else was terribly interested. 
Baumann and Lowther have had AA success, and it’s not at all unreasonable for them to skip AAA. I’m still expecting to see Zimmermann get meaningful starts. If they want to place service time shenanigans, there’s no reason not to use Lopez or Sceroler or even try Valdez for a bit. Now is the time for auditions, and no better audition than the real thing. We don’t need the Wade LeBlancs of the world, and god bless him, we don’t need King Felix either.

Given Elias passed action, very doubtful that Baumann and Lowther skip AAA and begin the season in the O's rotation.   No one is going to play service time games with Zimmermann.  Its more a question if he is ready to start the season in the O's rotation.

 

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, wildcard said:

Given Elias passed action, very doubtful that Baumann and Lowther skip AAA and begin the season in the O's rotation.   No one is going to play service time games with Zimmermann.  Its more a question if he is ready to start the season in the O's rotation.

 

No one is going to play service time games with Baumann and Lowthar.

[Number5]

34 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

No argument from me. The perfect situation would be he makes it through waivers and can be signed to a minor league contract with a spring training invite.

So, he's a free agent if he passes thru waivers?  Why wouldn't Houston be able to outright him?  These waiver rules confuse me sometimes.

[DrinkinWithFermi]

8 minutes ago, LookinUp said:

On argument against this is that our guys have already had a chance to work with Stewart. May feel like they've made of him what they can make of him, whereas Fisher might be a clean slate with a clearly correctable problem.

I actually really like Stewart's OBP too, so I agree that I wouldn't just jettison the guy by any means.

Maybe, but Stewart has flashed the ability to be something at the big league level, while Fisher has not (Stewart: .334 OBP, 106 OPS+ in 301 PAs, Fisher: .286 OBP, 78 OPS+ in 458 PAs) and DJ has never even gotten 150 PAs in a single season, which makes it kind of hard to say one way or the other, so I would much rather give him a chance to show what he can do with regular playing time over a full season than have him split time with a project guy who has produced far less in 50% more opportunities. If we can stash Fisher at AAA to tinker with to start the year, I'm in, but otherwise, I can easily live without him.

[MurphDogg]

1 hour ago, Philip said:

Why are you so sure Hernandez makes the team? He’s terrible, I love the guy he’s had a wonderful career, but he’s terrible now.

I think it’s far more likely that one of our rule five guys sticks.

He was having a great spring training last year and was on track to make the Braves opening day rotation.

[wildcard]

6 minutes ago, Number5 said:

So, he's a free agent if he passes thru waivers?  Why wouldn't Houston be able to outright him?  These waiver rules confuse me sometimes.

He is being waived by the Blue Jay but yes he can be outrighted to their minors if he clears waivers.  If the Blue Jays want him.

[Tony-OH]

18 minutes ago, Number5 said:

So, he's a free agent if he passes thru waivers?  Why wouldn't Houston be able to outright him?  These waiver rules confuse me sometimes.

He was with Toronto after being traded, but this made me look up the rules. 

https://legacy.baseballprospectus.com/compensation/cots/league-info/transactions-glossary/#:~:text=A player becomes eligible to,any subsequent contract he signs.

Outright assignments
A player assigned outright to the minor leagues for the first time in his career must accept the assignment. Thereafter, a player has the choice of either 1) rejecting the assignment and becoming a free agent immediately, or 2) accepting the assignment and become a free agent at the end of the season if he has not been returned to the 40-man roster.

A player with 3 years of Major League service may refuse an outright assignment and choose to become a free agent immediately or at the end of the season.

A player with 5 years of Major League service who refuses an outright assignment is entitled to the money due according to the terms of his contract.

Service Time
A player earns Major League service time for each day he spends on the active (25-man) roster or on the Major League 15-day or 60-day disabled lists. A player also continues to earn service time while serving any disciplinary suspension or serving in the military.

Under the CBA, 1 year of service is defined as 172 days. A player may earn up to 172 days of Major League service during a championship season (regular season), which lasts 187 calendar days. (Before the 2018 season, the season consisted of 183 days.) If a player is sent to the minor leagues on optional assignment for a total of less than 20 days during a season, he receives service time for the entire season.

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So if I read this correctly, I think Fischer would be forced to accept the outright assignment to the minor leagues since this is his first time being outrighted, and he does not have three years of service time accrued from what I can tell. This might mean the only way to get him from Toronto would be to claim him or trade for him. At least I think that's the situation.