More on Roberts and Chicago

[emmett16]

Hear, Hear!

I seriously doubt that Hendry will contact Andy in any serious way. I think that boat has sailed.

I know, that puts me at odds with the Chicago papers that are usually right on top of...I mean knowledgeable about....well let's just say well versed in the team's philosophical...actually, they have no clue concerning Cub moves, which means they'd should probably post here as insiders.

Now I'm sure that Jim will be polite and thoughtful if MacPhail comes calling, but I doubt that Roberts is really that high of a priority. RISP is more of a concern than a leadoff hitter for this team.

Jim has now had first had dealings with the same Andy that he worked with in Chicago. Someone that is less interested in a fair outcome for both teams then a man that has to be so overwhelmed with a deal in his favor (to cover his own backside) that it's probably MacPhail, from here on out (as far as Jim is concerned, anyway) that’ll have to come up with a package that works.

To be truthful, I believe it'll be dark days indeed for the posters on this board if they really believe they'll get anymore hauls like they did during last year's winter meetings.

I think the Oriole fans are going to find out what a pariah the owner and GM. of this team will be, as far as trades are concerned, anyway.

The hope was that MacPhail could bring some sanity to an ownership that ran this franchise into the ground.

Last year proved that MacPhail is only going to exacerbate the problem.

I sincerely doubt that the O's will have much success pulling off any trades of consequence as the trading deadline was a precursor of.

Me thinks MacPhail will go hat in hand to from here on out as most organizations will turn a deaf ear to him.

The dog and pony show that the O's front office put on last year, I believe, has made most teams unwilling to deal with them in anything more than a cursory way. Not much happened for them at the deadline for good reason.

Sadly this may well become the norm for this organization from here on out, as few teams will not want to deal with the Sybil-like (now) two-headed monster of the present G.M and owner.

I fear it'll be at least 10 more years of wandering in the wilderness for the O's as an organization with ownership and front office as presently constructed.

I don't believe many on this board really understand the animosity that MacPhail garnered during last years winter meetings.

Many of you won't want to hear this, but this organization is very similar looking to the Oakland Raiders on how they're run. Hangout posters are too close to the situation to see it, though.

We didnt make any deals at last years winter meetings.

[incubus]

I hear everyone talking about trading roberts for young talent, and I can understand that, but look what happened when we traded tejada. We now have a huge problem with His position. We had 5 (that I can count) guys play SS this season for us and none of them was even remotely effective at offense and D as tejada. I understand what we got in return for miguel, and one could make the arguement that Scott alone was more effective offensively this year than Tejada. But if we trade Roberts away without a good plan for a replacement we then have a huge hole right up the middle of our Defense.

My point is, in a way I see trading Roberts as a step in the wrong direction for the team at this time.

Anyone have any plans for a Roberts-less defense?

[Mike B]

Hear, Hear!

I seriously doubt that Hendry will contact Andy in any serious way. I think that boat has sailed.

I know, that puts me at odds with the Chicago papers that are usually right on top of...I mean knowledgeable about....well let's just say well versed in the team's philosophical...actually, they have no clue concerning Cub moves, which means they'd should probably post here as insiders.

Now I'm sure that Jim will be polite and thoughtful if MacPhail comes calling, but I doubt that Roberts is really that high of a priority. RISP is more of a concern than a leadoff hitter for this team.

Jim has now had first had dealings with the same Andy that he worked with in Chicago. Someone that is less interested in a fair outcome for both teams then a man that has to be so overwhelmed with a deal in his favor (to cover his own backside) that it's probably MacPhail, from here on out (as far as Jim is concerned, anyway) that’ll have to come up with a package that works.

To be truthful, I believe it'll be dark days indeed for the posters on this board if they really believe they'll get anymore hauls like they did during last year's winter meetings.

I think the Oriole fans are going to find out what a pariah the owner and GM. of this team will be, as far as trades are concerned, anyway.

The hope was that MacPhail could bring some sanity to an ownership that ran this franchise into the ground.

Last year proved that MacPhail is only going to exacerbate the problem.

I sincerely doubt that the O's will have much success pulling off any trades of consequence as the trading deadline was a precursor of.

Me thinks MacPhail will go hat in hand to from here on out as most organizations will turn a deaf ear to him.

The dog and pony show that the O's front office put on last year, I believe, has made most teams unwilling to deal with them in anything more than a cursory way. Not much happened for them at the deadline for good reason.

Sadly this may well become the norm for this organization from here on out, as few teams will not want to deal with the Sybil-like (now) two-headed monster of the present G.M and owner.

I fear it'll be at least 10 more years of wandering in the wilderness for the O's as an organization with ownership and front office as presently constructed.

I don't believe many on this board really understand the animosity that MacPhail garnered during last years winter meetings.

Many of you won't want to hear this, but this organization is very similar looking to the Oakland Raiders on how they're run. Hangout posters are too close to the situation to see it, though.

It is always nice to have knowlegeable Cub Fans come on hear and tell us about all our shortcomings. You certainly have everything figured out. Hendry is obviously a men among boys as far as GM's go. No one that knows anything thinks PA is anything but a problem as an owner, but IMO the Cubs and your beloved Hendry were the ones spreading many of last years rumors. Most of the leaks were coming from the Cub writers (incompetent, as you noted). Where is the animosity that you speak of coming from, Chicago?? We can live with that. Your dislike of AM taints your ability to be objective. You offered spare parts, and he shot it down. Let's hope you guys move on and we do likewise. The Orioles still have major problems (never disputed) and you have now gone a full century without winning a title. Maybe you have a few problems also.

If we are the Oakland Raiders, you must be the Cleveland Browns. Spend money with very little to show for it.

[baltimoriole]

I hear everyone talking about trading roberts for young talent, and I can understand that, but look what happened when we traded tejada. We now have a huge problem with His position. We had 5 (that I can count) guys play SS this season for us and none of them was even remotely effective at offense and D as tejada. I understand what we got in return for miguel, and one could make the arguement that Scott alone was more effective offensively this year than Tejada. But if we trade Roberts away without a good plan for a replacement we then have a huge hole right up the middle of our Defense.

My point is, in a way I see trading Roberts as a step in the wrong direction for the team at this time.

Anyone have any plans for a Roberts-less defense?

Have you looked at Tejadas offensive numbers since the trade to Houston? He had a hot April, but other than that he had months which were not that much better than the revolving door at SS. Also, regarding his defense he was worse than most of the SS's who replaced him last year. I'll also tell you that he surely wouldn't have netted 5 players after this year even if all 5 had torn labrums at the time of the trade. Trading Tejada, and his high salary, was the right move, he should have been traded earlier for Santana and Aybar, but why take old skeletons out of the closet?

Regarding Roberts, unless they somehow sign Teixeira, this is the absolute best time to trade. The O's will be just as bad next year as they were this year. They need to get younger and it's time to strike while the irons hot. His value is at an all time high. He had a sensational season last year.

[davearm]

I've heard the term "spare parts" used to describe Cub prospects twice now in recent posts.

I'd remind folks that some of those very same "spare parts" brought back Rich Harden AND a second quality ML pitcher (Chad Gaudin).

If you don't like the market for Roberts and think it's too soft, then keep him. But the market is what it is (and it's not going to be any better a year later).

So kindly quit perpetuating this charade that the offers coming Baltimore's way are/were oh-so insulting. Another, more accomplished GM obviously disagreed.

[davearm]

So how do you think the Cubs will achieve the more balanced lineup that Pineilla is looking for? He needs more then two lefties in the lineup to be balanced.

As I've said, I think they'll pursue another LH hitting outfielder.

Not sure how much clearer I can be about this.

2 LH bats is plenty if they're both in the middle of the lineup.

[incubus]

Have you looked at Tejadas offensive numbers since the trade to Houston? He had a hot April, but other than that he had months which were not that much better than the revolving door at SS. Also, regarding his defense he was worse than most of the SS's who replaced him last year. I'll also tell you that he surely wouldn't have netted 5 players after this year even if all 5 had torn labrums at the time of the trade. Trading Tejada, and his high salary, was the right move, he should have been traded earlier for Santana and Aybar, but why take old skeletons out of the closet?

Regarding Roberts, unless they somehow sign Teixeira, this is the absolute best time to trade. The O's will be just as bad next year as they were this year. They need to get younger and it's time to strike while the irons hot. His value is at an all time high. He had a sensational season last year.

Ok so, that part I understand, but the part that I havent seen anyone on here address, is what would we do at second base? do we have someone in the minors that I dont know about?

[baltimoriole]

If you don't like what we say about the Cubs prospects then don't come here. It's seriously that easy. I'm sure the Cubs have several message boards that you can get your fix on.

[Greg Pappas]

If you don't like what we say about the Cubs prospects then don't come here. It's seriously that easy. I'm sure the Cubs have several message boards that you can get your fix on.

'davearm', who is a Hangout NL Analyst and specifically our Cubs Team-Analyst, is expressing a valid opinion regarding the BRob/Cubs discussions, and telling him he can go elsewhere because he disagrees with some posters is inappropriate.

Disagreements are an essential component of what we do at the Hangout. How we conduct ourselves regarding differences in opinion are important in preserving the quality board that we have here.

[wildcard]

As I've said, I think they'll pursue another LH hitting outfielder.

Not sure how much clearer I can be about this.

2 LH bats is plenty if they're both in the middle of the lineup.

If you really believe that, that's one of us.

[Mike B]

I've heard the term "spare parts" used to describe Cub prospects twice now in recent posts.

I'd remind folks that some of those very same "spare parts" brought back Rich Harden AND a second quality ML pitcher (Chad Gaudin).

If you don't like the market for Roberts and think it's too soft, then keep him. But the market is what it is (and it's not going to be any better a year later).

So kindly quit perpetuating this charade that the offers coming Baltimore's way are/were oh-so insulting. Another, more accomplished GM obviously disagreed.

Since I am one of the ones that used spare parts, I will respond. I like Gallagher but other than that I will stand by the spare parts comment. Patterson still does not have a position and the jury is out on whether he will be an every day player. Murton, could not stay up on a decimated A's team. I do not know a thing about Josh Donaldson but do remember seeing a low .200 BA. Harden has an injury list a mile long and the A's were probably hoping to get as much value as they gould. Gaudin took advantage of the best park in the majors to pitch. He is more than likely a swing man.

I will take issue over your comment about the more accomplished GM. I know Beane gets a lot of praise for his money ball style of managing but what has he won?? He is very active trading and loves to sell, but AM has 2 World Series trophies and had your Cubs within 2 innings of the series. I know people will say it was not his doing but that is not really fair. Beane is certainly a different style but to say more accomplished is IMO a stretch.

[wildcard]

I've heard the term "spare parts" used to describe Cub prospects twice now in recent posts.

I'd remind folks that some of those very same "spare parts" brought back Rich Harden AND a second quality ML pitcher (Chad Gaudin).

If you don't like the market for Roberts and think it's too soft, then keep him. But the market is what it is (and it's not going to be any better a year later).

So kindly quit perpetuating this charade that the offers coming Baltimore's way are/were oh-so insulting. Another, more accomplished GM obviously disagreed.

If you are trying to imply the Hendry is more accomplished than Andy MacPhail you are blowing smoke.

MacPhail has won 2 World Series Championships.

Hendry has 3 Diviision titles without win the NL title

Oh, you where talking about Beane. As Mike said, Andy has won more WS then him also.

[Stotle]

I've heard the term "spare parts" used to describe Cub prospects twice now in recent posts.

I'd remind folks that some of those very same "spare parts" brought back Rich Harden AND a second quality ML pitcher (Chad Gaudin).

If you don't like the market for Roberts and think it's too soft, then keep him. But the market is what it is (and it's not going to be any better a year later).

So kindly quit perpetuating this charade that the offers coming Baltimore's way are/were oh-so insulting. Another, more accomplished GM obviously disagreed.

Beane made a bad trade. I wouldn't go so far as to label it "spare parts", but he sold low and didn't get any impact players. He had two weeks to drive the price up and jumped at a deal because he was worried Harden would get injured. End of story.

[Mike B]

If you are trying to imply the Hendry is more accomplished than Andy MacPhail you are blowing smoke.

MacPhail has won 2 World Series Championships.

Hendry has 3 Diviision titles without win the NL title.

i think he was implying Beane is. Again 2 world championships to none.

[wildcard]

i think he was implying Beane is. Again 2 world championships to none.

Got it, Mike. I think Dave went over the edge there for a minute.