Today's game marks 90 days for Zach Pop with the Marlins

[Tony-OH]

3 minutes ago, wildcard said:

I don't know  about that one.   Lakins had a 2.81 ERA in 2020 with the O's and was striking out one an inning.   He was  26 and was a 6th round draft choice.  I understand that he walked too many but that is not unusual for a young pitcher beginning in the majors.  I think Sulser was more likely to make it through waivers since he  would be  31 before the season started and had a bad year.  Normally a GM keeps the young guys in the rebuild and risks losing the 31 year olds.

Stuff wise, Sulser was better though and he's proved that this year when healthy. Saying that, I was definitely calling for Sulser to be removed for Pop, but I also didn't know about his foot injury until it was mentioned this year. 

Actually, Isaac Mattson is the guy that never should have been protected over Pop. He looked like a dime a dozen AAA reliever to me and has not proven anything else this year so far. A 92-94 MPH low spin fastball, below average curve and decent change should not have been protected. My guess is if Mattson was acquired by DD and Pop acquired by Elias, Pop would still be here. 
 

 

[DrungoHazewood]

7 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I f don’t think losing Pop is the end of the world, but I still think he may develop into a good back end reliever.   He’s had a pair of truly awful outings that account for more than half the earned runs he’s allowed.   Considering he’s fresh off TJ and hasn’t pitched competitively in two years, he’s a worthy long term project for the Marlins.  I think Wells fits our needs a lot better.

Pick a reliever, any reliever, and it's very likely they'll have allowed a disproportionate share of their runs in a handful of outings.

Random name... Donnie Hart... 2017.  Take away his four worst outings and his ERA was under 2.00.  Unscored on in 36 of 51 outings.

[Frobby]

37 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

Pick a reliever, any reliever, and it's very likely they'll have allowed a disproportionate share of their runs in a handful of outings.

Random name... Donnie Hart... 2017.  Take away his four worst outings and his ERA was under 2.00.  Unscored on in 36 of 51 outings.

Fair enough, and it makes sense.   

Interestingly enough, the Marlins have only brought Pop into games when the bases are empty.   He has yet to inherit a runner, in 22 appearances.   
 

 

[NCRaven]

9 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Fair enough, and it makes sense.   

Interestingly enough, the Marlins have only brought Pop into games when the bases are empty.   He has yet to inherit a runner, in 22 appearances.   
 

 

Not exactly Tyler Wells. 

 

[Legend_Of_Joey]

3 hours ago, Tony-OH said:

The good news is I would have traded Pop for Wells. Yes I know they could have had both, and yes I think leaving Pop was a bit of an unforced error on Elias' part, but at the end of the day, I think Wells will end up more valuable at the major league level with Well's starters repertoire. 

 

[27outs]

3 hours ago, Sports Guy said:

But Wells was your second selection, not your first and Mac S was a horrendous decision.

I seem to recall you shiitting on Wells quite often in the beginning 

[Sports Guy]

3 minutes ago, 27outs said:

I seem to recall you shiitting on Wells quite often in the beginning 

Not me..I didn’t mind picking him up…I liked his profile far more than Mac.

I did prefer Pop to Wells though.

[Tony-OH]

5 hours ago, Sports Guy said:

Not me..I didn’t mind picking him up…I liked his profile far more than Mac.

I did prefer Pop to Wells though.

Don't make me go back to where you called for both Rule 5 guys to go back because they were "crap".

[Roll Tide]

13 hours ago, Frobby said:

I f don’t think losing Pop is the end of the world, but I still think he may develop into a good back end reliever.   He’s had a pair of truly awful outings that account for more than half the earned runs he’s allowed.   Considering he’s fresh off TJ and hasn’t pitched competitively in two years, he’s a worthy long term project for the Marlins.  I think Wells fits our needs a lot better.

This is where I am …. But, I’d feel much different if/when he becomes a closer and saves 30+ per season.

[BohKnowsBmore]

15 hours ago, Tony-OH said:

The good news is I would have traded Pop for Wells. Yes I know they could have had both, and yes I think leaving Pop was a bit of an unforced error on Elias' part, but at the end of the day, I think Wells will end up more valuable at the major league level with Well's starters repertoire. 

Where does an “unforced error” end and a “calculated risk” that broke the other way begin?

[sportsfan8703]

I’m looking at it as a 1-1 swap of Wells for Pop. I’d rather have Wells long term. @Tony-OHmentioned that Wells would be right behind Baumann and Bradish, if he were on a “prospect” list. I think it would be hard to rate Pop as a 1 IP reliever anywhere near that high. 

[Sports Guy]

7 hours ago, Tony-OH said:

Don't make me go back to where you called for both Rule 5 guys to go back because they were "crap".

Go ahead..I don’t believe I said that about Wells.  Everything I said about Wells was that at least his numbers were good.  
 

I went back and looked and the only negative stuff I could find me saying about Wells was within the context of saying I thought it was a bad decision to get rid of Pop.
 

On his own, I didn’t mind Wells.  I never wanted Mac.  That was never going to work.

[NelsonCruuuuuz]

16 hours ago, Philip said:

I think they were both better than Jason Garcia. 

I have zero issues with the Garcia pick, high upside, just didn’t work. Santander did. Ben’s nephew wasn’t on anyone’s radar and heard he was taken as a favor. Not a fan of that decision making. 

[Tony-OH]

1 hour ago, Sports Guy said:

Go ahead..I don’t believe I said that about Wells.  Everything I said about Wells was that at least his numbers were good.  
 

I went back and looked and the only negative stuff I could find me saying about Wells was within the context of saying I thought it was a bad decision to get rid of Pop.
 

On his own, I didn’t mind Wells.  I never wanted Mac.  That was never going to work.

Challenge accepted:

Quote

"26 in AA means you aren’t good." 12/10/20 after he was selected

"I don’t get why you don’t just keep Pop, who had TJ surgery and missed a lot of time too. He is two years younger and you didn’t have to keep him in the majors." 12/10/20 on Pop over Wells

 

 

I know there was a post about both Rule 5s being returned because they aren't good but I couldn't find it after a quick search.

Either way, it's all good. Sometimes we change our minds as we get more information but it's also why we should have an open mind when players are acquired because it meant they thought there was something there.

They are shots and sometimes you will hit and other times you won't. Basically Elias is 1-4 for pitchers he acquired in the Rule 5 draft. Basically it cost them $250K to acquire a pitch of Wells' capability. Baily, Rucker (never understood that one) and Sceroler didn't hit. Actually, I wouldn't sleep on Scerloer. I still think he has the stuff to have success if he can command better.

[Sports Guy]

11 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

Challenge accepted:

I know there was a post about both Rule 5s being returned because they aren't good but I couldn't find it after a quick search.

Either way, it's all good. Sometimes we change our minds as we get more information but it's also why we should have an open mind when players are acquired because it meant they thought there was something there.

They are shots and sometimes you will hit and other times you won't. Basically Elias is 1-4 for pitchers he acquired in the Rule 5 draft. Basically it cost them $250K to acquire a pitch of Wells' capability. Baily, Rucker (never understood that one) and Sceroler didn't hit. Actually, I wouldn't sleep on Scerloer. I still think he has the stuff to have success if he can command better.

Well, if you are 26 and in AA you aren’t good, generally speaking.  However, his last season pitching in AA, I believe he was 23 or 24, which is far more acceptable.

And yes, I already stated that I would have preferred Pop over Wells at the time and i still may..we don’t know enough about either to make that determination right now.  The sample size is just too small.

What I didn’t say was that he was terrible or not worthy of the selection.  I did say that about Mac S and, of course, that has shown to be accurate.

The decision making process was the bigger issue for me though.  First of all, Pop never should have been left unprotected.  You drafted one terrible guy in the rule 5 and you didn’t get rid of several other dime a dozen options.  Secondly, you already had a young arm coming off of TJ surgery to be a potential back end of the pen arm and he is younger.  Now, maybe Wells can start and they liked that profile better (not that they chose Wells over Pop) but for right now, we don’t know what they will do with Wells and we knew at the time he wasn’t starting anytime soon.

Its just a bad run of decision making.

That being said, we should have Wells and Pop in the system and that’s really the bigger issue.

And btw, generally speaking, the rule 5 draft just annoys me because this team should be in a position where they don’t rely on that every year.  It seems to be the highlight of the offseason every year now.