Valaika DFA. Mateo replaces him

[7Mo]

On 8/6/2021 at 9:10 AM, Camden_yardbird said:

While that is true if we expand to player generally "picked off the scrap heap" which I would define as 1) waiver claims, 2) low profile free agent acquitions 3) players acquired for cash considerations or off of DFAs, I dont think Elias has shown any real skill in making these types of pickups.

And before we go and say that even those players rarely amount to much.  The Giants are the best team in the league, made up significantly by players like this.

Mike Yastremski, Donovan Solano, Alex Dickerson, Wilmer Flores, Darin Ruf, Thairo Estrada, Anthony DiScalfani, Mike Tuchman, Jose Alvarez, Kevin Gausman

Its a skill that good GMs have and not one that I think we can say Elias has shown particular skill in.  It is especially important on a rebuilding and low payroll team that has the time and spots to let those players play.  Players like that are found value, costing little and returning competitive value or trade value.

Interesting article in the Athletic. Several parallels. 

[Tony-OH]

On 8/8/2021 at 7:41 AM, Sports Guy said:

I think Tony goes a little overboard with the criticism of not finding good players off the scrap heap.  Those guys are few and far between.

That being said, I think the overall point is spot on.  Elias has done nothing to help the ML Team as of yet.  None of the trades he made has impacted the ML team.  The FA signings have done nothing to very little to help.  
 

The trades he has made for MiL players seem to have been good ones and have helped boost the ratings of the farm system but so what?  Everyone gets so excited about the farm system rankings but really, at the end of the day, BFD.  From 2009-2012, BA ranked our farm system 8,9, 21, 21.  And those early rankings were thanks to players like Matusz who did very little in the majors.  Those are hardly spectacular numbers and yet, the team won.  Why?  Because they hit on some cheaper ML talent and did well on some trades.  
 

So far, Elias is the opposite and while building the system is obviously important and a good sign for the future (and don’t forget a lot of these guys were already here and Adley was delivered to him on a silver platter), it means nothing right now.  
 

Elias wasn’t the GM is Houston.  He wasn’t the final decision maker.  I say that because people act like he was.  They talk about the Houston success but remember he had a lot of help and Houston did a lot on the ML level, especially with their pitching staff, that vaulted them to a title.  Elias had very little to do with that.  
 

In other words, Elias has done a great job of being a “minor league GM” but he has proven nothing in terms of being a major league GM.  This offseason is the time to really start judging him.  I can give him a pass for the first year since he started late.  I think he should have done more for 2020 but circumstances made it harder.  There are no excuses for this offseason.  I don’t want to hear about the CBA either.   It’s time to start making real moves and showing us that you can build a winning team because right now, winning in the minors is all he has shown us he can do.

That's fair, but I think you have captured what I've really been trying to get at when it comes to Elias. I don't expect that every DFA claim is going to turn into the next Jose Bautista, but at the end of the day, Elias has not shown he can build a team that can compete at the major league level and the players he has claimed have had very little impact now or most likely in a hopefully winning future.

Now saying that, we all know he's rebuilding and that winning at the major league level was never a priority, and in fact, since he wants high draft picks, losing actually helps that plan whether anyone in the organization wants to admit this or not.

It is time though to start looking at adding talent that makes the Orioles a young interesting team. My fear is that we don't have enough major league ready talent to even fill in with free agents yet. We are probably realistically looking at 2023, but I'm not sure the fan base can take another 100 loss season next year. 

I truly believe Elias is building the foundation for a successful franchise in the future (though I question his drafting strategy of not drafting pitchers (minus very few) before the 10th round, but no one knows if Elias can do what great GMs do and that's able to build a winning major league baseball team that competes year in and year out. 

 

[NCRaven]

JORGE MATEO!!    Okay, I'll put on the brakes a little.

 

[Philip]

Keon Broxton was also very fast, and also started well for us, for about a week.

Now he’s being terrible for Seattle.

[Ruzious]

I'd like to see Mateo, Martin, and Urias for the rest of the season.  I'm just not sure who should play which positions.  My thinking is Martin's the best SS, so he should play there.  It looks like Urias has more experience at 3B than Mateo, so I'd lean towards playing him at 3B with Mateo at 2B.  Jahmi Jones seems to have fallen out of the picture - slumping in the minors.  

[LA2]

3 hours ago, Ruzious said:

I'd like to see Mateo, Martin, and Urias for the rest of the season.  I'm just not sure who should play which positions.  My thinking is Martin's the best SS, so he should play there.  It looks like Urias has more experience at 3B than Mateo, so I'd lean towards playing him at 3B with Mateo at 2B.  Jahmi Jones seems to have fallen out of the picture - slumping in the minors.  

Jones' last full season in the minors was AA in 2019 (544 PAs), during which he slashed .234 / .308 / .324 / .631. Add on top of that his defensive shortcomings and it brings home to me how desperate O's fans have become to find an infield savior. The last few decent to very good middle-infielders we've had (Hardy, Schoop, Villar, Iglesias, Galvis) were all inexpensively obtained (in Schoop's case, by the Brewers, Twins, and Tigers). So I trust that Elias will find them when we're ready to contend. The Franco experiment had a good chance of working out and it didn't and Ruiz was a flop. Nunez hit but couldn't field well (ditto Betemit, Reynolds, Valencia, Davis, Alvarez). We don't have a hot prospect third baseman in the minors. That seems to be the challenge, while Urias, Mateo, Martin, and others currently in the minors fight it out for SS/2B--and if no one succeeds, like I said above, Elias will find someone better.

[wildcard]

11 minutes ago, LA2 said:

Jones' last full season in the minors was AA in 2019 (544 PAs), during which he slashed .234 / .308 / .324 / .631. Add on top of that his defensive shortcomings and it brings home to me how desperate O's fans have become to find an infield savior. The last few decent to very good middle-infielders we've had (Hardy, Schoop, Villar, Iglesias, Galvis) were all inexpensively obtained (in Schoop's case, by the Brewers, Twins, and Tigers). So I trust that Elias will find them when we're ready to contend. The Franco experiment had a good chance of working out and it didn't and Ruiz was a flop. Nunez hit but couldn't field well (ditto Betemit, Reynolds, Valencia, Davis, Alvarez). We don't have a hot prospect third baseman in the minors. That seems to be the challenge, while Urias, Mateo, Martin, and others currently in the minors fight it out for SS/2B--and if no one succeeds, like I said above, Elias will find someone better.

I am guessing you are talking about for 2022.   The O's have Dorrian with a 881 OPS at AA.  Westburg with a 882 OPS at A+ ball  and highly ranked Henderson who had a 944 OPS at age 19 at low A before moving to A+ ball.  Any of them could be the O'a 3rd baseman of the future.

But I do agree that Elias may need to go get a 3B for 2022.

[LA2]

28 minutes ago, wildcard said:

I am guessing you are talking about for 2022.   The O's have Dorrian with a 881 OPS at AA.  Westburg with a 882 OPS at A+ ball  and highly ranked Henderson who had a 944 OPS at age 19 at low A before moving to A+ ball.  Any of them could be the O'a 3rd baseman of the future.

But I do agree that Elias may need to go get a 3B for 2022.

Yes. I want a decent veteran third baseman for 2022. We've got to start the up-trend in winning games next year. We need to complement the core of AR, the 3 Ms, and whoever wins the corner OF positions. I want someone at third who can field well enough to support young pitchers. If the prospects you mentioned pan out, then we can trade him.

[interloper]

3 hours ago, LA2 said:

Yes. I want a decent veteran third baseman for 2022. We've got to start the up-trend in winning games next year. We need to complement the core of AR, the 3 Ms, and whoever wins the corner OF positions. I want someone at third who can field well enough to support young pitchers. If the prospects you mentioned pan out, then we can trade him.

This. The organization does not have a viable homegrown option at 3B. It's the one position I would look to fill properly in free agency, even moreso than SP since that's kind of a waste of time in free agency right now. 

[interloper]

8 hours ago, Ruzious said:

I'd like to see Mateo, Martin, and Urias for the rest of the season.  I'm just not sure who should play which positions.  My thinking is Martin's the best SS, so he should play there.  It looks like Urias has more experience at 3B than Mateo, so I'd lean towards playing him at 3B with Mateo at 2B.  Jahmi Jones seems to have fallen out of the picture - slumping in the minors.  

Yep - these three guys have to play. Franco really should go to the big DFA in the sky, especially when you're covered well enough with guys like Valaika and Wilkerson at AAA if there's an injury. 

[wildcard]

Mateo: .286 in his first 35 AB with the O's.  Moves well in the middle infield.  Strong arm.  Outstanding speed.   Its worth watching a terrible team just to see what comes next for this guy. 

[Moose Milligan]

7 minutes ago, wildcard said:

Mateo: .286 in his first 35 AB with the O's.  Moves well in the middle infield.  Strong arm.  Outstanding speed.   Its worth watching a terrible team just to see what comes next for this guy. 

If this is a scrap heap guy that could turn into a gem, that'd be huge.  

Odds are that it probably won't happen.  But if you have two guys with speed like Mullins and Mateo, that's pretty awesome.

[eddie83]

10 minutes ago, wildcard said:

Mateo: .286 in his first 35 AB with the O's.  Moves well in the middle infield.  Strong arm.  Outstanding speed.   Its worth watching a terrible team just to see what comes next for this guy. 

Not getting my hopes up but it was a worthwhile pickup. 
 

It’s a shame we have no one to replace Franco. His bat is atrocious. 

[bobmc]

8 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

If this is a scrap heap guy that could turn into a gem, that'd be huge.  

Odds are that it probably won't happen.  But if you have two guys with speed like Mullins and Mateo, that's pretty awesome.

Yes another carrot at the end of the stick - like Bannon rising and Fernando ABAD - er - he was moving some strikes around today but getting squeezed.  If he could mix that 2 seamer with his hook, he might give us some Plutko-esque help for a month.

[OriolesMagic83]

On 8/10/2021 at 4:51 AM, Ruzious said:

I'd like to see Mateo, Martin, and Urias for the rest of the season.  I'm just not sure who should play which positions.  My thinking is Martin's the best SS, so he should play there.  It looks like Urias has more experience at 3B than Mateo, so I'd lean towards playing him at 3B with Mateo at 2B.  Jahmi Jones seems to have fallen out of the picture - slumping in the minors.  

The O's are going to need to trade/DFA someone.  They all seem to be utility player type guys.  Urias seems to have the most upside.  I would like to see Urias given a spot for next year.  I can't see Martin having any future value than a utility guy and there's going to be a roster crunch, so he has to go.  Jury's obviously still out on Mateo, but the clock is running with all the guys advancing thru the minors.