Greene on the way to Baltimore? No.

[Roll Tide]

While considering the merits of Izturis vs. Greene, think about this: Izturis was the Cardinals shortstop last year. The could have just extended him, but instead they let him go and traded two players for Greene, who earns a higher salary than it would have taken to retain Izturis. So I guess it's safe to say they weren't too enthralled with Izturis.

Here is hoping we can be more creative than Izturis. I would consider the quest for a quality SS a failure if he is the best AM can accomplish.

[Mackus]

Here is hoping we can be more creative than Izturis. I would consider the quest for a quality SS a failure if he is the best AM can accomplish.

Izturis is fine as a stopgap, and is certainly the best realistic option for the MLB roster in 2009. We should sign him and then look to see if there are any blocked prospects sitting at AA or AAA who can hopefully take over in 2010.

If Greene is your idea of a success at SS, then Izturis cannot be considered a failure. He doesn't have Greene's upside, but he actually has a decent shot of being the better player next season, as he was the better player between the two in 2008.

[33rdst]

I'm glad we didnt trade any of our young pitching prospects for Greene. After the O's didn't bite on the Olsen for Greene deal it became kind of obvious that Greene wasn't what they were looking for. Time will tell if they blew it on that one. It will be interesting to follow Greene's play in a much more friendly hitters ball park.

[DrungoHazewood]

Izturis is fine as a stopgap, and is certainly the best realistic option for the MLB roster in 2009. We should sign him and then look to see if there are any blocked prospects sitting at AA or AAA who can hopefully take over in 2010.

If Greene is your idea of a success at SS, then Izturis cannot be considered a failure. He doesn't have Greene's upside, but he actually has a decent shot of being the better player next season, as he was the better player between the two in 2008.

I think Izturis is a decent plan C, but not much more. He had a great year with the glove, at least according to +/-, in 2008, but he was average the two years before that. At +20 with the glove you can carry his low 600s OPS bat. With a +0 glove he's not much different than Brandon Fahey. Certainly not $5M (or whatever it takes) different.

I'd hope MacPhail is scouring the minors, Japan, Mexico, waiver wire, Rule 5, etc. for more cost effective all-glove, no-hit shortstops.

[Fan4Life]

Izturis is fine as a stopgap, and is certainly the best realistic option for the MLB roster in 2009. We should sign him and then look to see if there are any blocked prospects sitting at AA or AAA who can hopefully take over in 2010.

If Greene is your idea of a success at SS, then Izturis cannot be considered a failure. He doesn't have Greene's upside, but he actually has a decent shot of being the better player next season, as he was the better player between the two in 2008.

Wot Greene be a FA after next year anyway? Theoretically we could just sign him then?

[Mackus]

I think Izturis is a decent plan C, but not much more. He had a great year with the glove, at least according to +/-, in 2008, but he was average the two years before that. At +20 with the glove you can carry his low 600s OPS bat. With a +0 glove he's not much different than Brandon Fahey. Certainly not $5M (or whatever it takes) different.

I'd hope MacPhail is scouring the minors, Japan, Mexico, waiver wire, Rule 5, etc. for more cost effective all-glove, no-hit shortstops.

If its a 1-year deal, I don't care if he costs $5M. I'd rather have Izturis on a 1/$5M deal than another year of what we just went through.

[Mackus]

Wot Greene be a FA after next year anyway? Theoretically we could just sign him then?

Yeah, we could do that. Of course, if he bounces back, he's gonna be pretty expensive. If he has an .800 OPS, 20+ HR season he'll probably command at least $10M per year on the open market.

[DrungoHazewood]

If its a 1-year deal, I don't care if he costs $5M. I'd rather have Izturis on a 1/$5M deal than another year of what we just went through.

I don't think you abandon a whole philosophy of player acquisition and fall back to limiting yourself to the MLB free agent blue light specials just because you screwed up one year and picked Luis Hernandez.

[ACE]

I'd hope MacPhail is scouring the minors, Japan, Mexico, waiver wire, Rule 5, etc. for more cost effective all-glove, no-hit shortstops.

I agree, I like for us to atleast show interest in someone like Tomohiro Nioka.

http://www.japanesebaseball.com/players/player.jsp?PlayerID=1072

[Mackus]

I don't think you abandon a whole philosophy of player acquisition and fall back to limiting yourself to the MLB free agent blue light specials just because you screwed up one year and picked Luis Hernandez.

I think Izturis will probably be better than anyone you find on the bargain bin. Maybe not better than the very best one of them, but the odds of picking the one guy out of the ten identical ones that will actually play really well is pretty slim. Plus you have a tangible idea of how good his glove actually is. The other guys you are just going on scouting reports from scouts who probably have only seen them play a couple times, so they are less reliable. I'll take my chances with the proven commodity, even if he's not proven to be very good, as long as its not a multi-year deal.

If we can't add someone who is borderline MLB-ready, like Wood, Donald, Arias, or Cedeno (various degrees of prospect status and therefore price, but any of them could be handed the job next year), then Izturis is my favorite option for next year.

[Frobby]

Izturis is fine as a stopgap, and is certainly the best realistic option for the MLB roster in 2009. We should sign him and then look to see if there are any blocked prospects sitting at AA or AAA who can hopefully take over in 2010.

If Greene is your idea of a success at SS, then Izturis cannot be considered a failure. He doesn't have Greene's upside, but he actually has a decent shot of being the better player next season, as he was the better player between the two in 2008.

I think Izturis is a decent plan C, but not much more. He had a great year with the glove, at least according to +/-, in 2008, but he was average the two years before that. At +20 with the glove you can carry his low 600s OPS bat. With a +0 glove he's not much different than Brandon Fahey. Certainly not $5M (or whatever it takes) different.

I'd hope MacPhail is scouring the minors, Japan, Mexico, waiver wire, Rule 5, etc. for more cost effective all-glove, no-hit shortstops.

If its a 1-year deal, I don't care if he costs $5M. I'd rather have Izturis on a 1/$5M deal than another year of what we just went through.

I am with Mackus here. First, I think Drungo is understating Izturis' defense. He had some injury problems in 2006-07 that wildcard has detailed in other threads. There's little doubt in my mind that Izturis when healthy is a plus with the glove.

Second, the Orioles have made it as clear as day that they consider defense to be a top priority at SS. That may be a questionable strategy, but it's their strategy. So let's not do what we did last year -- and have the worst of both worlds. Scouring the waiver wire etc. sounds great in theory, but isn't that what we tried last year?

Now if we acquire a talented, blocked young SS in a trade, that's fine with me. But I'm also OK with Izturis for 1-2 years.

[DrungoHazewood]

I agree, I like for us to atleast show interest in someone like Tomohiro Nioka.

http://www.japanesebaseball.com/players/player.jsp?PlayerID=1072

Exactly. Nioka is 33 and his 20-30 homer power in Japan almost certainly won't translate to the US (I'd expect maybe 10 homers here). And I'm not sure about his glove. But if he's an average MLB defender at SS I'd be game. He has more upside than Itzuris, probably isn't any more expensive, and he's apparently buddies with Uehara. Maybe they could get them as a package, and really show the world the O's are serious about international players.

[DrungoHazewood]

I am with Mackus here. First, I think Drungo is understating Izturis' defense. He had some injury problems in 2006-07 that wildcard has detailed in other threads. There's little doubt in my mind that Izturis when healthy is a plus with the glove.

Second, the Orioles have made it as clear as day that they consider defense to be a top priority at SS. That may be a questionable strategy, but it's their strategy. So let's not do what we did last year -- and have the worst of both worlds. Scouring the waiver wire etc. sounds great in theory, but isn't that what we tried last year?

Now if we acquire a talented, blocked young SS in a trade, that's fine with me. But I'm also OK with Izturis for 1-2 years.

If Izturis' defense is really plus-plus that makes him more palatable, obviously. I was just wary of a guy who had two average years followed by an Adam Everett-type season. I don't want to pay free agent prices for a fluke.

[Sanfran327]

We will whiff on Izturis, too. This is just my opinion. The hare always crushes the tourtise in real life, AM. Sorry, buddy.

Also, because of the hangups we had concerning rumored trades since AM got here, I'm starting to get the feeling that we really won't be making ANY significant trades this off season, because we don't have ANY position players that anyone wants (or that we're willing to part with - Roberts being the lone exception), and AM flat-out refuses to trade our pitching prospects. Call me crazy, but this is just the way I see it.

[Frobby]

If Izturis' defense is really plus-plus that makes him more palatable, obviously. I was just wary of a guy who had two average years followed by an Adam Everett-type season. I don't want to pay free agent prices for a fluke.

That's fair. And I can't say I've seen Izturis play, so I'm really just going on second-hand information. Here is a post from wildcard that I found somewhat convincing:

I did some research of Izturis that might not be what you asked for but I did unearth some things not discussed in this thread.

Izturis may be the best in no-hit/good field SS that the O's are going to find.

1) He has a Golden Glove to his credit in 2004. Was the Dodgers starting SS from 2002-2005.

2) He had Tommy John surgery on his right elbow on Sept 16th 2005 due to arthritis in the elbow. He was on the DL until June 2006 and was traded to the Cub that July. The Dodger acquired Furcal the winter of 2005.

3) When the Cubs had Izturis in 2006 and to begin 2007 he was probably not at full arm strength. Then the Cubs traded him to Pit.

4) 2008 was the first year since his surgery that he played a full year at SS and he was outstanding again. He was near the top in many defensive categories for fielding pct and range.

5) He is a drain on the offense. He doesn't strike out or walk that much but he has no power and doesn't drive in runs and his OBP is poor. In 600 at bats, here is what I would expect:

600 AB, 60 R, 1 HR, 35-40 RBI, 40 SO, 18 for 26 in SB, 260/310/310/620.

Conclusion: Soon to be 29 year old Izturis is not the O's SS of the future but he would be major upgrade over what the O's had last year at SS. Consistent defense from a guy young enough and apparently healthy enough to give the O's a full season. His offense will hurt the team, so the O's will need to have a strong offensive team elsewhere to be able to carry him.

http://forum.orioleshangout.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1527128&postcount=197