MLB Lockout Thread

[scOtt]

4 hours ago, Camden_yardbird said:

They both make a lot of money and in the end they won't make significant changes necessary for the longterm health of the sport in favor of short term financial gain.  Expect a meaningless agreement with small changes.

[Moose Milligan]

7 hours ago, connja said:

No way this season starts on time.

I think it starts on time, but does it really matter?

I've said it before, I'll say it again here.  Both sides have to be acutely aware of what they stand to lose if games aren't played.  Revenue and popularity.  MLB is not trending upward in interest, it's well behind the NFL and probably behind the NBA by a decent stretch, too. Battling it out for 4th place with the NHL is not optimal but that's where we're headed.

And there's no ace up the sleeve in order to restore interest for whatever damage they're about to inflict upon themselves.  The steroids that were starting to creep into the game in the late 80s and early 90s that saved the game after the '94 strike have been banned.  They can't come out with another rabbit ball to spike offense, they've already done that.  

The game has been pretty much pushed to the limits of what the players can do, both naturally and chemically enhanced.  There's nowhere else for it to go.  Batters selling out for home runs on every swing against pitchers throwing 100 mph gas.  Walks, strikeouts and dingers.  What a game.

Pitch clocks, making sure the batter stays in the box, reliever batter minimums, reducing mound visits...whatever.  It's all the very definition of moving the deck chairs around on the Titanic.  And while I think Manfred is what the French call les incompétents, I also can't fault the guy for not being able to stop what appears to be the inevitable.  

So start the season on time or don't.  The former just prolongs the death rattle while the latter hastens the death blow.

 

[wildcard]

Scherzer is saying that the current CBA is unfair to players.  Under the current system Scherzer has made 221M and that does not include the 86m dollar contract that he just signed.    Please be unfair to me like that.

I know he is talking about the middle level players but who are these players?  Do they think  they can't succeed under the current system?

[Can_of_corn]

47 minutes ago, wildcard said:

Scherzer is saying that the current CBA is unfair to players.  Under the current system Scherzer has made 221M and that does not include the 86m dollar contract that he just signed.    Please be unfair to me like that.

I know he is talking about the middle level players but who are these players?  Do they think  they can't succeed under the current system?

The two of you are talking about different things.

[wildcard]

9 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

The two of you are talking about different things.

Please explain.

[Can_of_corn]

25 minutes ago, wildcard said:

Please explain.

I noticed you felt a need to reference how much Max has made.

How much has he earned his employers?

No one is suggesting that a middle tier MLB player doesn't have it great.  That doesn't mean that the relationship between players and owners is fair or equitable.

 

[wildcard]

1 hour ago, Can_of_corn said:

I noticed you felt a need to reference how much Max has made.

How much has he earned his employers?

No one is suggesting that a middle tier MLB player doesn't have it great.  That doesn't mean that the relationship between players and owners is fair or equitable.

 

So two sides making a lot of money trying to out greed the other.   And the chance that they don't start the season on time because of that.   If this is the way it happens it will serve them right if fans don't show up at the parks and cut the cable bills or don't subscribe to their greed.

[Tony-OH]

3 hours ago, wildcard said:

Scherzer is saying that the current CBA is unfair to players.  Under the current system Scherzer has made 221M and that does not include the 86m dollar contract that he just signed.    Please be unfair to me like that.

I know he is talking about the middle level players but who are these players?  Do they think  they can't succeed under the current system?

Players making that kind of money who open their mouth up should really stay quiet. Minor League players salaries and condition and even the fact that free agency takes six years of team control are legitimate concerns for the players, but guess what, they don't care about minor league players. The 2021 minimum salary was set at $570,500 dollars a year, having grown by 90% over the last 18 years. According to the May 2020 National Occupational Employment and Wages Estimates by the BLS, the average salary in the United States is $56,310. 

So first year major league players are making ten times the amount of the average American and of course you have your Scherzer's making 30 million +.  So I have a hard time thinking the players have huge grievances that will hold much weight with the average American.

Saying that, the owners refuse to open up the books and show what they make and MLB as a whole is so poor at marketing that the game is declining in popularity, particularly among people under 40. 

So at the end of the day, I don't think either side is going to get a lot sympathy from the fans. Add in that you have a lot of alienated fans right now over a lot of things, and I don't think either side realizes the suicide they are conducting if they end up with a work stoppage that does not include a full season of games next year. 

[RZNJ]

5 hours ago, Moose Milligan said:

I think it starts on time, but does it really matter?

I've said it before, I'll say it again here.  Both sides have to be acutely aware of what they stand to lose if games aren't played.  Revenue and popularity.  MLB is not trending upward in interest, it's well behind the NFL and probably behind the NBA by a decent stretch, too. Battling it out for 4th place with the NHL is not optimal but that's where we're headed.

And there's no ace up the sleeve in order to restore interest for whatever damage they're about to inflict upon themselves.  The steroids that were starting to creep into the game in the late 80s and early 90s that saved the game after the '94 strike have been banned.  They can't come out with another rabbit ball to spike offense, they've already done that.  

The game has been pretty much pushed to the limits of what the players can do, both naturally and chemically enhanced.  There's nowhere else for it to go.  Batters selling out for home runs on every swing against pitchers throwing 100 mph gas.  Walks, strikeouts and dingers.  What a game.

Pitch clocks, making sure the batter stays in the box, reliever batter minimums, reducing mound visits...whatever.  It's all the very definition of moving the deck chairs around on the Titanic.  And while I think Manfred is what the French call les incompétents, I also can't fault the guy for not being able to stop what appears to be the inevitable.  

So start the season on time or don't.  The former just prolongs the death rattle while the latter hastens the death blow.

 

MLB is in a death rattle?   Could have fooled me.  I guess that's why no one wants to spend a billion to get into this decline. 

[Sports Guy]

1 hour ago, wildcard said:

So two sides making a lot of money trying to out greed the other.   And the chance that they don't start the season on time because of that.   If this is the way it happens it will serve them right if fans don't show up at the parks and cut the cable bills or don't subscribe to their greed.

Yes it’s about greed but so what?

Players feel they deserve X amount because they are the reason the fans come.  They are the reason money is generated.

Owners believe they are entitled to Y because they are the reason the players get paid, etc…

I don’t care if you are worth 2 billion dollars or 200 dollars.  You still have a belief you should receive what you are worth/deserve.

I don’t think the season gets interrupted at all.  I think this gets hammered out.  
 

I will say this..my worry about all of this is that they don’t seem to have any sense of urgency.  These guys should be a room everyday trying to figure this out.  
 

Now, I refuse to believe that negotiations aren’t happening.  People are definitely talking.  But they aren’t locked in a room and that needs to be happening.

[waroriole]

It’s a shame fans can’t form their own union or nominate some steward of the game who cares about more than squeezing every dime out of the current market, with no concern for the future of the game. 

[Sports Guy]

I don’t have an issue with Max Scherzer saying what he did.  He is speaking for the whole union.  Just because he has made a ton doesn’t mean he is wrong in what he said and let’s face it, if Jordan Lyles came out and talked about it, would anyone outside of his family listen?  

Would anyone care if Neustrom came out talking about minor league conditions?  

Having a big name(s) come out is what they should do.

[RZNJ]

As someone else said, no serious negotiations are going to start until there is some kind of deadline,  ie. when either side starts getting hit where it hurts, the wallet. 

[Redskins Rick]

1 minute ago, RZNJ said:

As someone else said, no serious negotiations are going to start until there is some kind of deadline,  ie. when either said starts getting hit where it hurts, the wallet. 

MLB is going to play a simple game of chicken with the CBA, the rich fatcat owners can survive without their baseball money.

 

[RZNJ]

9 minutes ago, Redskins Rick said:

MLB is going to play a simple game of chicken with the CBA, the rich fatcat owners can survive without their baseball money.

 

It seems like it's usually the owners who cave in first.