Would you rather…

[Sports Guy]

Just now, baltimoreO's22 said:

Its Santander for Snell imo. Snell has some potential to turn things around, I don't know why he's struggling so bad in SD, and we have Stowers who can replace Santander. 

Unless we reach an immediate extension with Montas, I don't want to give up on DL yet. 

He’s really not struggling that bad.  People just look at ERA and run with it.

Hes not pitching to his ceiling but he’s not nearly as bad as his ERA suggests.

[Sports Guy]

8 minutes ago, foxfield said:

The Orioles are really not in a position to trade starting pitchers, so for me Hall would be out.  I think we are entering a window where trading current pieces or future pieces for controllable pitching is in order.  So in general I think this is what Elias is going to be looking to do.  

Your two choices do illustrate the challenge.  Snell is a relatively expensive short term asset not much unlike Lyles just with a hair more upside, though at sizable cost.  But trading for good pitching will require trading valuable assets, so that may be uncomfortable.

Under your scenario I would take the snell deal as trading Santander is trading value but value we can replace. 

Like Frobby said in another thread...this is where the job for Elias gets harder.  And for us gets more fun.

I don’t think these choices are particularly hard.

I think what makes his job hard (and let’s face it, he’s not curing cancer, so it’s not like his job is hard anyway) are his bosses.

[foxfield]

7 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

He’s really not struggling that bad.  People just look at ERA and run with it.

Hes not pitching to his ceiling but he’s not nearly as bad as his ERA suggests.

No he is not struggling that bad.  And his numbers do suggest that he isn't as bad as his ERA.  He would be helpful even if he only did what he is doing for the rest of this year and next.   But he isn't cheap.

 

7 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

I don’t think these choices are particularly hard.

I think what makes his job hard (and let’s face it, he’s not curing cancer, so it’s not like his job is hard anyway) are his bosses.

Regardless of how you clarify his job.  The Orioles have limited resources.  He can begin extending what he believes is the core as Cleveland did years ago or they can spend on FA.  But how those choices are made are very important and becuase they are limited it does in fact make it harder.  Look at the huge amount of money the Yankees are overspending on their roster.  

And the choices are obviously broader than the two you propose.  I would love to see us spend/buy Santander/Mancini/Tate and get a young controllable pitcher.   Is there a Josh Hader or Eduardo Rodrequez out there from someone chasing a WS?  Mets, Pads, Dodgers, Yanks?  

I am fine including someone from the farm for a deal...but I would not include Hall.

Great conversation either way.

[Orioles0615]

Id trade Cowser and a few for Pablo Lopez, don't know about headlined around Hall. 

[clapdiddy]

Definitely the Santander/Snell deal.  You've got a replacement for Santander in Stowers.   

[ChosenOne21]

Given the state of our organizational pitching, I'm not trading DL Hall for just about anyone. If they wanted to talk position player prospects for Montas, maybe

[baltimoreO's22]

14 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

He’s really not struggling that bad.  People just look at ERA and run with it.

Hes not pitching to his ceiling but he’s not nearly as bad as his ERA suggests.

It's relative to the rest of his career. 

 

excluding his rookie year, he has career worst ERA, ERA+, WHIP, BB9, Exit Velocity on batted balls, OBP allowed and maybe some others I missed, but he's struggling for his standard. 

[DirtyBird]

You don't trade DL Hall after drafting the way Elias has over the past few years.

[Sports Guy]

Just now, DirtyBird said:

You don't trade DL Hall after drafting the way Elias has over the past few years.

You do if you feel his value is higher than what his production will be.

I like Hall a lot and love his upside but he is clearly the most volatile top prospect we have.  Plenty of guys like him have flamed out..in fact the number of flame outs is probably way higher.

 

[InsideCoroner]

46 minutes ago, IPlayGM said:

It is a ‘potentially’ great return for Santander.  The other side of the coin is that you trade him for essentially what Zimmermann can give you.

Snell has proven he can get out major league hitters more often than not. I haven't seen that with any consistency from Zimmermann. Snell also gives up far less homers per 9 (career rate just under 1.00; Zimm is at 2.20). I would go for that deal.

[RVAOsFan]

I think the Snell for Santander trade makes a ton of sense if the organization is sold on Stowers.  If we could sweeten that deal to get the Padres comp pick I think the trade would be a home run.

With that being said, are we sure the organization is sold on Stowers? When he came up in Toronto I think he spent as much time on the bench as he did on the field.  I don't want to derail this thread but I wonder if Elias would trade Stowers if he had more value in obtaining a cost controlled pitcher.

[DirtyBird]

Just now, RVAOsFan said:

I think the Snell for Santander trade makes a ton of sense if the organization is sold on Stowers.  If we could sweeten that deal to get the Padres comp pick I think the trade would be a home run.

With that being said, are we sure the organization is sold on Stowers? When he came up in Toronto I think he spent as much time on the bench as he did on the field.  I don't want to derail this thread but I wonder if Elias would trade Stowers if he had more value in obtaining a cost controlled pitcher.

The risk involved with Stowers is the reason it makes sense to try to re-sign Mancini to a 2 or 3 year deal.

[RVAOsFan]

1 minute ago, DirtyBird said:

The risk involved with Stowers is the reason it makes sense to try to re-sign Mancini to a 2 or 3 year deal.

I think I would see it as the opposite if we are concerned about the risk of Stowers you trade Mancini and keep Santander.  I prefer not seeing Mancini in the OF if Stowers bombs.

I do think a lot of us are treating it as a given that Stowers is a lock to be good.  I think what Elias thinks of him has a big impact on what we do at the deadline.

[baltfan]

If you look at what the Dodgers have done, they never trade their top 3-4 prospects.  The Orioles should do the same.  G-Rod, Gunnar, and Hall would be untouchable for me.  You only trade one of those guys if you can get a true stud with years left, and there isn't one of them on the market.  

As for trading for Snell, definitely would trade Santander as part of a package for him.  This, of course, presumes the Orioles see something that they can fix.  

[Moose Milligan]

Snell. Not trading Hall.