O's Fans Held Hostage - Day 19

[Sports Guy]

Very much.

As I said, GM's don't do much during the season, they mainly do stuff in the off season.

This off season isn't done, so we don't know about this one yet. So far, we only know about AM's first one.

Now, if somebody wants to judge this offseason at the halfway mark, I have a question:

Do you think we should evaluate the team's on-field performance last season based on how it was doing at the halfway mark?

No? I didn't think so. Because that's not how baseball works.

After the Bedard deal last year, AM still had around 6-8 weeks to accomplish things...He then had an entire season and so far, he has had 3 months of this offseason.

That is plenty of time for him to have accomplished more things.

You can say it is a bs question to ask what has he done in the last 11 months..That's your right..But you are completely wrong and let me tell you something...if AM had done some amazing things for the organization in those 11 months and really set us up in a major way long term and acquired a ton of talent(like beane did), i doubt you would be poo pooing those 11 months. I bet you would be talking about what an outstanding job he has done.

However, since that has happened, you revert to your normal ways.

As far as evaluating what he has done thus far this offseason...Again, you haven't seen myself, Bigbird or anyone else talk SOLELY about this offseason...We are talking about almost a full calendar year here..Had AM done more last offseason and during the season, there would be less noise about all of this right now..I am sure you don't believe that but really, none of us care if you do or don't.

And, on top of all of this, I fully acknowledge that there is still time and that AM has done a lot, in his GM career, in the second half of the offseason..So, here is hoping that continues this year.

[bigbird]

So there's nothing you don't like about him personally?

FYI, Reyes has had elbow soreness since September. Also many other teams passed on him and didn't offer STL a trade. And did you see definitely hear we didn't inquire about Reyes?

Other than Tex and Burnett, there have been no other FA's worth signing and giving up draft picks.

Nothing personal. Just business. Can you sit there and tell me there was not a better free agent pitcher available last offseason than Steve Trachsel??

No shortstops last offseason who were better than Luis Hernandez?? O was told we had no interest in Reyes.

[Lucky Jim]

Or do you want to bring up that he won 2 world series with the Twins???

I didn't bring that up. And never have. I grade on the work I see before me. That's it. Seriously, do a search of the board for me, MacPhail and Twins.

I've never brought it up. Hence, I'm not relying on it. The same can't be said of you.

[Mackus]

Sorry but that's not the way baseball works. There are some unwritten rules to baseball arbirtation and cutting a player after binding arbitration isn't practiced. I can't ever rcall this happening, can you????

It is exactly the way baseball works. They also can reach an agreement with the player to offer arbitration under the condition that he turns it down, the Padres have done this before.

Carlos Pena was released by Detroit in 2006, getting 45 days termination pay ($688k of $2.8M). Had they released him earlier, they only would have owed him 30 days pay.

There is no rational justification for not offering Hawkins arbitration, it was a stupid move, plain and simple.

[Satyr3206]

I've always heard that one definition of genius is:

"The ability to keep your composure when everyone else is losing theirs".

I wonder which side of that equation some of the posters fall on.

[zff4]

I've always heard that one definition of genius is:

"The ability to keep your composure when everyone else is losing theirs".

Sometimes when you keep your composure when everyone else is losing theirs just means that you are not well informed.

[JTrea81]

I'm waiting for the MacPhail quote that says he doesn't see anything happening before February...

It's coming any day now...

[Satyr3206]

Sometimes when you keep your composure when everyone else is losing theirs just means that you are not well informed.

Been there, done that.

[Lucky Jim]

After the Bedard deal last year, AM still had around 6-8 weeks to accomplish things...He then had an entire season and so far, he has had 3 months of this offseason.

That is plenty of time for him to have accomplished more things.

You can say it is a bs question to ask what has he done in the last 11 months..That's your right..But you are completely wrong and let me tell you something...if AM had done some amazing things for the organization in those 11 months and really set us up in a major way long term and acquired a ton of talent(like beane did), i doubt you would be poo pooing those 11 months. I bet you would be talking about what an outstanding job he has done.

However, since that has happened, you revert to your normal ways.

As far as evaluating what he has done thus far this offseason...Again, you haven't seen myself, Bigbird or anyone else talk SOLELY about this offseason...We are talking about almost a full calendar year here..Had AM done more last offseason and during the season, there would be less noise about all of this right now..I am sure you don't believe that but really, none of us care if you do or don't.

And, on top of all of this, I fully acknowledge that there is still time and that AM has done a lot, in his GM career, in the second half of the offseason..So, here is hoping that continues this year.

This is eminently reasonable, SG. Like I said, a difference in temperment. But, to be clear, I'm not crowning AM yet. I've listed the things I want to see. And I do. I'm just not judging him yet, especially with a market that's as strange as the one going on now: with the shifts in player valuation (focus downward) and the drop in the economy at large, it's volatile. Taking the full offseason, and even this season, to further a plan is okay by me.

[Boy Howdy]

I've always heard that one definition of genius is:

"The ability to keep your composure when everyone else is losing theirs".

I wonder which side of that equation some of the posters fall on.

There are some thought-provoking, informed folks on here. No doubt about that.

I've yet to read anybody's posting day after day and have the "genius" lightbulb turn on in my head, though. Not yet anyway.

[bigbird]

It is exactly the way baseball works. They also can reach an agreement with the player to offer arbitration under the condition that he turns it down, the Padres have done this before.

Carlos Pena was released by Detroit in 2006, getting 45 days termination pay ($688k of $2.8M). Had they released him earlier, they only would have owed him 30 days pay.

There is no rational justification for not offering Hawkins arbitration, it was a stupid move, plain and simple.

I may be wrong but I don't believe Pena ever went to arbitration. Again I'm not aware of a player who won an arbitration case being cut loose after the award is made.

[Boy Howdy]

Always remember:

MacPHAIL’S OFF-SEASON BOTTOM LINE

Total trades = 42

October trades = 1

November trades = 7

December trades = 8

January trades = 4

February trades = 5

March trades = 17

More than half of MacPhail’s off-season trades have been made in February & March!

http://urbanshocker.wordpress.com/2008/01/25/orioles-gm-andy-macphails-trade-timetable-waiting-in-vain/

EDIT - That was before the Bedard deal, or the Ramon Hernandez deal, but the point remains the same.

[davearm]

You cut him before ST and only owe him 1/6 of that.

Not offering Hawkins arbitration was absolutely inexcusable, although only a small mistake in the scheme of things. Would have made losing those draft picks for the relievers they did sign much more tolerable though.

The 1/6th rule you're citing is not in place to provide a means of dumping guys you were hoping would decline arb. It's in place to protect teams in cases where the player shows up in the spring exhibiting "diminished skills" (or somesuch language).

So long as Hawkins could still run the same flat fastball and blah slider up to the plate as he could at the end of the previous season, the Union would file a grievance, and whip up on a team trying to do what you're proposing.

And even if the O's could wiggle off the hook, then they'd be out $1M, have no picks, and people would still carp about how the situation was bungled.

[Mackus]

I may be wrong but I don't believe Pena ever went to arbitration. Again I'm not aware of a player who won an arbitration case being cut loose after the award is made.

Pena didn't go to arbitration, they reached a settlement after exchanging figures. He was then cut in ST, which is allowed, and paid 45 days termination pay.

Who cares if we are or are not aware of a player winning an arb case and then being cut? Whether they win, lose, or settle, they can still be cut. And its in the rules, so any BS about it "not being done" is nonsense.

They should have told Hawkins that they were gonna offer him arbitration and asked him not to accept, telling him that if he did accept, they would just release him with 30 days pay if he doesn't agree to decline. He was a Type B, so there would be no hesitation from other teams to sign him if he was offered arbitration.

Offering Hawkins arbitration was the right move, there really isn't any other argument, unless you simply don't want free sandwich picks.

[bigbird]

The 1/6th rule you're citing is not in place to provide a means of dumping guys you were hoping would decline arb. It's in place to protect teams in cases where the player shows up in the spring exhibiting "diminished skills" (or somesuch language).

So long as Hawkins could still run the same flat fastball and blah slider up to the plate as he could at the end of the previous season, the Union would file a grievance, and whip up on a team trying to do what you're proposing.

And even if the O's could wiggle off the hook, then they'd be out $1M, have no picks, and people would still carp about how the situation was bungled.

Thank you....