Odor and .200

[Jammer7]

10 hours ago, Aristotelian said:

 

He gets a lot of hate but Odor had a classic sequence last night. Helps protect Baker and Adley, then the very next inning should have gotten himself thrown out stretching a routine single into a double but makes it on a wildly improbable swim dive, triggering a 3 run rally. Excellent quote following the game. 

 

 

 

 

You do know that is a parody account, right? He did not say anything like that.

 

Edited September 7, 2022 by Jammer7

[Jammer7]

The Odor hate here is predictable. Gunnar boots two double plays and cost us a game, but it’s Odor who gets lambasted as the problem? In fairness, Gunnar has not played much 2B and it is ridiculous that they put him in that position in a supposed playoff run. I cannot believe that was Hyde’s decision. Terrible decision by the front office, IMO. Gunnar’s confidence was a bit shaken after that too. You could see it in his body language. 

The team became deflated because of it. All we read here is how bad Odor is. The team wants Odor at 2B every day. The pitchers need him there. He is their heart and soul. That guy busts it every night and they respect him. Gunnar is the future, absolutely. An amazing talented young player. But they should play this team out, win or lose with the guys who got you here. Mendoza line be damned. The guy has shown this team how to play winning baseball. 

[Fiver6565]

24 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

Say what you want about Odor the players at this stage in his career, and you may be right, but he has to be one of the best all-time teammate locker-room guys. Would love to see them bring him back as a coach next year.

Isn’t he just 28?  Allegedly anyway. Probably a little early to be talking about moving into coaching. 

[AnythingO's]

1 hour ago, Tony-OH said:

Say what you want about Odor the players at this stage in his career, and you may be right, but he has to be one of the best all-time teammate locker-room guys. Would love to see them bring him back as a coach next year.

I am just seeing this, for me it's 11 hours old, I am absolutely amazed you uttered this (electronically of course). I don't know what has happened to Odor over the last several years but he has hit 30 HR several times and has been in GG top 3 consideration. I know the 2B cavalry is coming and he has zero trade value BUT last night he stopped Vlad Jr. in his tracks and Mateo and Santander were out there protecting our guys from mayhem. His impact locker room has been discussed here ad infinatum.  What exactly is there broken in his swing and that can be improved??? I'm serious. Mateo was out there defending and his MLB career hangs by a thread; he made a significant effort this year to change. Santander has quietly tried to carve out a MLB career, beset with spotty performance and injuries. This year may be his best ever TBD. Urias has gone from a spotty @b at best (defensively) to an above average 3B who can still hit a lick, as he always has. Our infield of the future is rising rapidly but the tide isn't quite here yet. What if we encourage Rougned to go to a "Mateo-like" swing reconstruction off-season program in return for a MLB contract in 2023? Will he still be under his TX contract next year? What if we tell Urias he is the Utility IF and he will play 3-4 times per week? What if we tell Mateo he is the starting SS and Gunner is at 3B? Obviously I am attributing alot of influence to Rougned but he is the only significant change to the Latin contingent (prob forgot someone, 4th gin and tonic). All year Hyde and by extension the FO, have been echoing the Rougned factor, I think, after yesterday, we have some tangible evidence of his influence, albeit not baseball-performance related. IF he is anywhere as influential on the other Latin players as I believe he is, and in this Playoff drive you want to send a message to the team that you BELIEVE, then doing an :"extension of sorts" now would be blindingly clear. We have arrived, we are Not going away, and anyone who wants to "F" with us can deal with Rougie. Everyone STILL remembers the Bautista right hook. This is a guy people remember. Put Bautista (Omar) and Rougned in a marketing campaign, put Felix in Omar's long coat with a bat and Rougned in MMA gear with an angry O bird on his chest. Sell Tee shirts, promote the last 3 games with the BJs. Party like it's 1982, or 1989, or 2012. Lets revel in this moment.

[LA2]

2 hours ago, AnythingO's said:

I am just seeing this, for me it's 11 hours old, I am absolutely amazed you uttered this (electronically of course). I don't know what has happened to Odor over the last several years but he has hit 30 HR several times and has been in GG top 3 consideration. I know the 2B cavalry is coming and he has zero trade value BUT last night he stopped Vlad Jr. in his tracks and Mateo and Santander were out there protecting our guys from mayhem. His impact locker room has been discussed here ad infinatum.  What exactly is there broken in his swing and that can be improved??? I'm serious. Mateo was out there defending and his MLB career hangs by a thread; he made a significant effort this year to change. Santander has quietly tried to carve out a MLB career, beset with spotty performance and injuries. This year may be his best ever TBD. Urias has gone from a spotty @b at best (defensively) to an above average 3B who can still hit a lick, as he always has. Our infield of the future is rising rapidly but the tide isn't quite here yet. What if we encourage Rougned to go to a "Mateo-like" swing reconstruction off-season program in return for a MLB contract in 2023? Will he still be under his TX contract next year? What if we tell Urias he is the Utility IF and he will play 3-4 times per week? What if we tell Mateo he is the starting SS and Gunner is at 3B? Obviously I am attributing alot of influence to Rougned but he is the only significant change to the Latin contingent (prob forgot someone, 4th gin and tonic). All year Hyde and by extension the FO, have been echoing the Rougned factor, I think, after yesterday, we have some tangible evidence of his influence, albeit not baseball-performance related. IF he is anywhere as influential on the other Latin players as I believe he is, and in this Playoff drive you want to send a message to the team that you BELIEVE, then doing an :"extension of sorts" now would be blindingly clear. We have arrived, we are Not going away, and anyone who wants to "F" with us can deal with Rougie. Everyone STILL remembers the Bautista right hook. This is a guy people remember. Put Bautista (Omar) and Rougned in a marketing campaign, put Felix in Omar's long coat with a bat and Rougned in MMA gear with an angry O bird on his chest. Sell Tee shirts, promote the last 3 games with the BJs. Party like it's 1982, or 1989, or 2012. Lets revel in this moment.

Wow!

[OriolesMagic83]

6 hours ago, Jammer7 said:

The Odor hate here is predictable. Gunnar boots two double plays and cost us a game, but it’s Odor who gets lambasted as the problem? In fairness, Gunnar has not played much 2B and it is ridiculous that they put him in that position in a supposed playoff run. I cannot believe that was Hyde’s decision. Terrible decision by the front office, IMO. Gunnar’s confidence was a bit shaken after that too. You could see it in his body language. 

The team became deflated because of it. All we read here is how bad Odor is. The team wants Odor at 2B every day. The pitchers need him there. He is their heart and soul. That guy busts it every night and they respect him. Gunnar is the future, absolutely. An amazing talented young player. But they should play this team out, win or lose with the guys who got you here. Mendoza line be damned. The guy has shown this team how to play winning baseball. 

Hyde/Elias:  Gunnar looks like he could be an All Star at 3B or SS.  Let's play him at 2B/DH.

[2001OriolesFan]

Just to point out.  Gunnar played second base and make two errors. On one he got the ball stuck in his glove, trying to speed up to turn a possible DP.  On the second he fumbled a ball.   Gunnar got benched. ...... Last night (4th game of the jays series),  Odor fumpled a DP ball and just threw to get the out at 1st base- just like Gunnar did.  Is he going to get benched?  Later Odor let a bouncing ball go under his glove, because he just didn't get his glover low on the ball.  Worse than Gunnar's miscue. Is Odor benched?

Somehow Odor gets a pass on any mistake he does.   In this series he has (at least twice to my recollection) provided a 3rd out K with runners in scoring position. how about cutting down your swing and trying for a line drive?   Nobody notices.

 

Seriously, Odor is good entertainment and that does help bring fannies into the seats.  The 0.200 hitter problem?   OK for a great defensive SS if you have 3-4 reliable big boppers on the team.   Not okay for a 2nd baseman.

 

Edited September 8, 2022 by 2001OriolesFan

[sportsfan8703]

I think the goal should be to have  Westburg primarily play 2B from here on it. Especially with Ortiz now at SS in AAA. No big shake up is coming this year. 
 

Next year I see,

Westburg - 2B

Gunnar - 3B

Mateo - SS

Ortiz will be in the mix as well if Mateo’s bat is too terrible, Westburg can’t play 2B, or if Mountcastle struggles. Norby is in the mix at 2B/1B as well. 

[2001OriolesFan]

4 hours ago, sportsfan8703 said:

I think the goal should be to have  Westburg primarily play 2B from here on it. Especially with Ortiz now at SS in AAA. No big shake up is coming this year. 
 

Next year I see,

Westburg - 2B

Gunnar - 3B

Mateo - SS

Ortiz will be in the mix as well if Mateo’s bat is too terrible, Westburg can’t play 2B, or if Mountcastle struggles. Norby is in the mix at 2B/1B as well. 

This GM thinks that Mayo and Kjerstad are the upcoming candidates for first base.  Both are a little slow for an Oriole outfielder and both have the reputation of being big bats.  It may take a while for them to appear (2024?) and in the mean time Noby or Santander might be the backup.

 

[Frobby]

11 hours ago, OriolesMagic83 said:

Hyde/Elias:  Gunnar looks like he could be an All Star at 3B or SS.  Let's play him at 2B/DH.

Bitch, bitch, bitch.  Hyde is not going to disrupt the guys who have played in certain spots all year so that a rookie who’s been up 10 days can replace them.  

Honest to God, the amount of second guessing that’s been going on the last two months is mind-blowing.  This team is on pace for a 30+ win improvement in its W-L record over last year.   They were 16-9 in July, 17-10 in August.  Yeah, these guys running the team have no idea what they’re doing.  
 

[Tony-OH]

18 hours ago, Jammer7 said:

The Odor hate here is predictable. Gunnar boots two double plays and cost us a game, but it’s Odor who gets lambasted as the problem? In fairness, Gunnar has not played much 2B and it is ridiculous that they put him in that position in a supposed playoff run. I cannot believe that was Hyde’s decision. Terrible decision by the front office, IMO. Gunnar’s confidence was a bit shaken after that too. You could see it in his body language. 

The team became deflated because of it. All we read here is how bad Odor is. The team wants Odor at 2B every day. The pitchers need him there. He is their heart and soul. That guy busts it every night and they respect him. Gunnar is the future, absolutely. An amazing talented young player. But they should play this team out, win or lose with the guys who got you here. Mendoza line be damned. The guy has shown this team how to play winning baseball. 

I guess you are one vote for Odor over .200?

[Tony-OH]

18 hours ago, Fiver6565 said:

Isn’t he just 28?  Allegedly anyway. Probably a little early to be talking about moving into coaching. 

Well not the way he's been hitting the last few years. I think Odor is a great teammate, but he's a below replacement level player at this stage in his career.

[Tony-OH]

4 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Bitch, bitch, bitch.  Hyde is not going to disrupt the guys who have played in certain spots all year so that a rookie who’s been up 10 days can replace them.  

Honest to God, the amount of second guessing that’s been going on the last two months is mind-blowing.  This team is on pace for a 30+ win improvement in its W-L record over last year.   They were 16-9 in July, 17-10 in August.  Yeah, these guys running the team have no idea what they’re doing.  
 

You sound like some of the people on our Facebook page. Why do you think disagreeing with a decision that has been made means they think the FO don't know what they are doing? It's called discussion. There is nothing wrong with questioning something the FO or manager does without it meaning the person thinks they don't know what they are doing. 

You've been around here way too long to start being one of those guys that say, "The FO know more than you so shut up". 

[btdart20]

19 hours ago, Jammer7 said:

The Odor hate here is predictable. Gunnar boots two double plays and cost us a game, but it’s Odor who gets lambasted as the problem? In fairness, Gunnar has not played much 2B and it is ridiculous that they put him in that position in a supposed playoff run. I cannot believe that was Hyde’s decision. Terrible decision by the front office, IMO. Gunnar’s confidence was a bit shaken after that too. You could see it in his body language. 

The team became deflated because of it. All we read here is how bad Odor is. The team wants Odor at 2B every day. The pitchers need him there. He is their heart and soul. That guy busts it every night and they respect him. Gunnar is the future, absolutely. An amazing talented young player. But they should play this team out, win or lose with the guys who got you here. Mendoza line be damned. The guy has shown this team how to play winning baseball. 

It's fair to put those Gunnar E's on the front office.  I highly doubt he's played much 2B ever in his life until the last week or so of AAA.  The angles/approaches/etc. are part of the muscle memory that are developed over reps.  Just a dumb decision seeking an upgrade at 2B (which they obviously were).  

That said, there's already a player on the ML roster who has experience at 2B AND nearly .100 higher OPS than Odor.  Urias.  Maybe (maybe not) a half-step back defensively, but better offensively.  (The jab is irreplaceable, but its R-value is debatable!)  How much of a 'winning spirit' knock will it be to the team?  In spite of all the quants and math-whizzery in the FO, it seems they value the mystery behind that question.

That said part II, this team is a joy this year!  Odor has been a big piece of the fun.  

That said part III, when do we finish the chapter titled "Wafting Odor's Swag" chapter of the "Rebuild" and turn the page to "Get Some Dubs!"?  I would have marked this transition when Elias stated decisions will look different going forward.

[btdart20]

1 hour ago, Frobby said:

Bitch, bitch, bitch.  Hyde is not going to disrupt the guys who have played in certain spots all year so that a rookie who’s been up 10 days can replace them.  

Honest to God, the amount of second guessing that’s been going on the last two months is mind-blowing.  This team is on pace for a 30+ win improvement in its W-L record over last year.   They were 16-9 in July, 17-10 in August.  Yeah, these guys running the team have no idea what they’re doing.  
 

I agree with the hesitancy of replacing the horses that put us in this position so far this year (benching Odor or Urias).  But I also don't question playing Gunnar because the team could use a spark on offense. 

I'm not one who generally second guesses.  They have built a lot of redundancy and have tried a number of things to get peak performance out of players with a holistic view.  Some will work.  Some won't.

But I do question playing Gunnar at 2B.  He has very likely played has only played on the left side of the IF his entire life until the last week of AAA.  IMO Elias/Hyde/staff obviously DO know what they are doing.  But I think the carrot of quick wins and a change in focus at the trade deadline caused some short-sighted decisions.  My take is that it was an out of character attempt to be flexible and still get Gunnar's bat in the lineup consistently to see what lineup played up.