Orioles sign Adam Frazier

[Pickles]

4 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

You seem to know Mike really well.

You know, if the move really was as indefensibly moronic as some have claimed, you wouldn't need to descend into armchair psychology to criticize it.

[Pickles]

1 minute ago, owknows said:

We all have egos.

I thought the Brett Phillips thing, This Signing, and maybe to a lesser extent Aguilar and sticking with Odor were all counter-productive moves driven by assigning more value to analytical nuance than to common sense.

That doesn't mean I think Elias is a pathological moron.

It means I think he's potentially subject to the same human failings as the rest of us, and will therefore make some good decisions, and some bad ones.

Do his "pathologies" get any of the credit for his good moves?

[owknows]

1 minute ago, Pickles said:

You know, if the move really was as indefensibly moronic as some have claimed, you wouldn't need to descend into armchair psychology to criticize it.

On the whole I'd say Elias' good decisions far outweigh his bad ones.

But he is subject to the same human failings as the rest of us.

[Slight Upward Arc]

People show you who they are if you listen.

Look at all his quotes this off-season and tell me I’m wrong. Or you could just keep getting offended that I don’t like the guy, which is really weird to me. 

Edited December 17, 2022 by Slight Upward Arc

[RZNJ]

1 minute ago, Slight Upward Arc said:

People show you who they are if you listen.

Look at all his quotes this off-season and tell me I’m wrong. Or you could just keep getting offended that I don’t like the guy, which is really weird to me. 

Weird?   I'd say so.

[owknows]

1 minute ago, Pickles said:

Do his "pathologies" get any of the credit for his good moves?

"Pathologies" was your word.. not mine.

He's a person. One the whole the good outweighs the bad... considerably

I think he's made probably the best drafting decisions this organization has ever seen

But Brett Phillips, Aguilar, Continuing with Odor, and ultimately Frazier (even if he coughs up 2 WAR) were not good decisions.

[Pickles]

1 minute ago, owknows said:

On the whole I'd say Elias' good decisions far outweigh his bad ones.

But he is subject to the same human failings as the rest of us.

I haven't heard a single person argue he's infallible.

I haven't heard a single person cheer on this move.

I have heard a lot hyperbolic vitriol that has now descended into ridiculous armchair diagnoses about the pathologies that drive Mike Elias.

[Three Run Homer]

22 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

It’s not absurd. Absurd is thinking it’s wise to pay 8M for 1 WAr. 1 WAR players aren’t hard to find. You should be able to produce those guys for nothing.  

By definition, a guy you can easily get for nothing should have a zero WAR.

In any case I'm sure the thinking is that Frazier's bat will bounce back to career norms.  He's always been a slap hitter; in 2021 he had an abnormally high BABIP which led to a "career year"; in 2022 he had an abnormally low BABIP which led to an off year.  

I would hate the signing if it leads to Ortiz and/or Westburg rotting at AAA in 2023, but it doesn't have to be that way.  Frazier was (hopefully) signed to be a left-handed utility bat, which the Orioles didn't have on the roster.  There is still room for right handed hitters to get the majority of at bats at 2B and SS.  Nothing is stopping the O's from trading Urias and/or Mateo to make room for Ortiz and Westburg, and if the O's fail to make that move, it won't be because they signed Frazier.  

[Pickles]

1 minute ago, owknows said:

"Pathologies" was your word.. not mine.

He's a person. One the whole the good outweighs the bad... considerably

I think he's made probably the best drafting decisions this organization has ever seen

But Brett Phillips, Aguilar, Continuing with Odor, and ultimately Frazier (even if he coughs up 2 WAR) were not good decisions.

No, but patholgies is what you're claiming; I'm just using the correct word. 

I think the criticism of all those moves is grossly overblown.

Brett Phillips got 17 abs.

Aguilar got 50.

Odor became a part time player the second Gunnar was brought up.

And if Frazier does put up a 2 WAR, then sorry, but that would certainly count as a value move.

[Aristotelian]

13 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

It’s not absurd. Absurd is thinking it’s wise to pay 8M for 1 WAr. 1 WAR players aren’t hard to find. You should be able to produce those guys for nothing.  

You know as well as I do that Frazier has a higher ceiling than 1 WAR. Either way I don't see a problem with filling holes with high floor/low ceiling veterans when needed. If this is a fireable offense a lot of GM's will be getting fired. Clevinger, Gallo, Robertson, Keiermeyer, Lorenzen, May, and Santana all fit this profile and some are going to good teams. 

 

[RZNJ]

Here's my armchair psychology.    I don't ever get the sense when I see Elias interviewed that he thinks he's the "smartest guy in the room".   He seems like a pretty down to earth, forthright guy to me as much as a GM can be.   

What I find funny is the many posters on here that seem so threatened by Mike Elias and are always basically saying MIKE ELIAS ISN'T AS SMART AS HE THINKS HE IS!!!

Mike Elias does not come across as some pompous, stuffed shirt, self-annointed genius yet many on here seem to treat him that way.   

[owknows]

1 minute ago, Pickles said:

I haven't heard a single person argue he's infallible.

I haven't heard a single person cheer on this move.

I have heard a lot hyperbolic vitriol that has now descended into ridiculous armchair diagnoses about the pathologies that drive Mike Elias.

You chose to employ the hyperbole that elevated a simple criticism to a chronic pathology.

Not me.

I said that I thought the Brett Phillips, Aguilar, sticking with Odor, and Frazier decisions were indicative of placing too much value on analytical nuance, and too little value on common sense.

And that ego likely played a role.

And further stated Elias has made far more good decisions than bad ones.

 

[owknows]

1 minute ago, Pickles said:

Brett Phillips got 17 abs.

Aguilar got 50.

 

While Vavra and Stowers sat on the bench.

Bad decision.

[Pickles]

3 minutes ago, owknows said:

You chose to employ the hyperbole that elevated a simple criticism to a chronic pathology.

Not me.

I said that I thought the Brett Phillips, Aguilar, sticking with Odor, and Frazier decisions were indicative of placing too much value on analytical nuance, and too little value on common sense.

And that ego likely played a role.

And further stated Elias has made far more good decisions than bad ones.

 

If he's making poor decisions systemically because he's driven by his ego and need to demonstrate his superior intellect (your claim) then that's a pathology.

[Pickles]

8 minutes ago, owknows said:

While Vavra and Stowers sat on the bench.

Bad decision.

Wildly overblown.

Vavra and Stowers got a combined 203 PAs.  Aguilar and Phillips got 68.

Vavra and Stowers were not rotting on the bench as Aguilar and Phillips stole all the glory.

Edited December 17, 2022 by Pickles