Adam Frazier 2023

[Mr-splash]

2 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

Remember when everyone wanted to play Vavra over Odor?  Well that happened the night that Stowers hit that walk off. Vavra failed to turn to crucial double plays. Odor was quickly brought in as a defensive replacement and played 2nd base until we were out of it. I think we did try Gunnar there a few times. 
 

Everyone is so caught up on the 8 million given to Frazier, but not the 5 given to Givens. Also, 8 million is kind of the going rate for a starting second baseman. 
 

45% of the way through the season and he still catches flak. It’s not his fault that the O’s must not like Westburg’s defense. 

Frazier must be laughing his ass off right now. Dude is playing baseball for a living! Think about that. He gets to play baseball as a grown man and not have an actual job. He's a millionaire many times over. Drinks premium whiskey, can date whatever supermodel he wants to. And is in great shape. Can't hate. If we all could do that, we would do it too. By the way the team is on a close to 100 win pace. 

[owknows]

1 hour ago, sportsfan8703 said:

Remember when everyone wanted to play Vavra over Odor?  Well that happened the night that Stowers hit that walk off. Vavra failed to turn to crucial double plays. Odor was quickly brought in as a defensive replacement and played 2nd base until we were out of it. I think we did try Gunnar there a few times. 
 

Everyone is so caught up on the 8 million given to Frazier, but not the 5 given to Givens. Also, 8 million is kind of the going rate for a starting second baseman. 
 

45% of the way through the season and he still catches flak. It’s not his fault that the O’s must not like Westburg’s defense. 

Nobody is squawking about the MONEY to Frazier.

They're squawking about the fact the he's clogging the plumbing. And it was obvious that he would even before the signing.

There are better options already with the big club... and even more in AAA.

Most of whom play at least equivalent defense.

All of whom can't get playing time because there's a guy who's batting .150 in the last 30 days standing in the way.

 

 

[glenn__davis]

1 hour ago, sportsfan8703 said:

 

Everyone is so caught up on the 8 million given to Frazier, but not the 5 given to Givens. Also, 8 million is kind of the going rate for a starting second baseman. 

I don't necessarily think people think Frazier is overpaid.  I think it's that this organization seems to penny-pinch in some areas, and the payroll is pretty low, so it's surprising that they would spend that much money on a player like Frazier when there are cheaper and potentially better options available.  Just seems like a strange use of resources for a team that limits its payroll.

[wildcard]

22 minutes ago, owknows said:

Nobody is squawking about the MONEY to Frazier.

They're squawking about the fact the he's clogging the plumbing. And it was obvious that he would even before the signing.

There are better options already with the big club... and even more in AAA.

Most of whom play at least equivalent defense.

All of whom can't get playing time because there's a guy who's batting .150 in the last 30 days standing in the way.

 

 

A lot of this was not true at the beginning of the season.   Ortiz and Westburg had not mastered AAA.    Gunnar has not established himself in the majors.    Elias didn't know what to expect from Mateo.    

All that you said is true now. But Elias had to make sure the team was covered in the infield.   So now the O's have too many infielders.   Oh the horror.     Its a good problem and the O's are winning at  a 100 win pace.   Its really not so terrible.

I don't think Frazier is playing well enough to attract a team to trade for him.  But they have to continue to give him  at bats in hopes of trading him.   So maybe the  O's are going to have to continue to win at a 100 pace with him.    Maybe after the trade deadline the O's will be able to  promote Westburg or give Ortiz a starting role at 2B and bench Frazier.     Who knows.

Edited June 23, 2023 by wildcard

[owknows]

13 minutes ago, wildcard said:

 

So now the O's have too many infielders.   Oh the horror.     Its a good problem and the O's are winning at  a 100 win pace.   Its really not so terrible.

 

No... it's not a good problem to have.

And it's effects are beginning to stack up throughout the farm.

AAA guys can't move to MLB

AA guys can't move to AAA

A guys can't move to AA

Middle infielders are stacking up. People are starting to lose playing time. It has a significant cost.

This team drafted exceptionally well... and stacked up high quality players. This came at the expense of longsuffering fans watching a lot of tanking. And now they're at serious risk of squandering some of that draft capital because they're clinging to replacement level journeymen at the MLB level like grim death.

They already needed to trade away some middle infielders BEFORE the added Frazier. Now they they're in a tighter spot. And they're going to have to make decisions without even knowing what they have. Not to mention the fact that they'd be a better MLB team today if they parted company with the dumpster fodder.

We don't need half-eaten sandwiches from the trash. We're not that team anymore. We have the best farm in baseball... and we admire it like it's a rock collection.

Keeping that farm working like a well oiled machine is going to be CRITICAL to maintaining high level MLB performance on a low budget. You have to keep the conveyor belt evenly stocked and rolling. This is going to turn into the "I Love Lucy" episode where they are trying to pack chocolates at the end of the assembly line.

It's sad... because its so obviously predictable.

[ChuckS]

49 minutes ago, wildcard said:

I don't think Frazier is playing well enough to attract a team to trade for him.  But they have to continue to give him at bats in hopes of trading him.   

You really think they would continue to play a bad player when they know they have better options, in hopes of eventually getting some meager return at the trade deadline?  That is not something a team with playoff aspirations does.  

The obsession with mediocre vets is tough to explain.  In Frazier's case, I think it's a combination of them thinking he gives them the best chance to win (misguided) and the 8 million dollar contract.  I would be surprised (not shocked) if Frazier was traded at any point in the season. 

Edited June 23, 2023 by ChuckS

[glenn__davis]

59 minutes ago, wildcard said:

I don't think Frazier is playing well enough to attract a team to trade for him.  But they have to continue to give him  at bats in hopes of trading him.   

No they don't, and I certainly hope that that is not playing into their thinking at all.

[Can_of_corn]

1 hour ago, owknows said:

Nobody is squawking about the MONEY to Frazier.

They're squawking about the fact the he's clogging the plumbing. And it was obvious that he would even before the signing.

There are better options already with the big club... and even more in AAA.

Most of whom play at least equivalent defense.

All of whom can't get playing time because there's a guy who's batting .150 in the last 30 days standing in the way.

 

 

The only way in which the money was mentioned is that for a team with a limited budget folks would have rather the money been spent elsewhere.

[wildcard]

32 minutes ago, ChuckS said:

You really think they would continue to play a bad player when they know they have better options, in hopes of eventually getting some meager return at the trade deadline?  That is not something a team with playoff aspirations does.  

The obsession with mediocre vets is tough to explain.  In Frazier's case, I think it's a combination of them thinking he gives them the best chance to win (misguided) and the 8 million dollar contract.  I would be surprised (not shocked) if Frazier was traded at any point in the season. 

I think its both.  Hyde has made it clear he thinks Frazier is a heady player that helps the team win.

Edited June 23, 2023 by wildcard

[Moose Milligan]

Damn. Should have kept Rougie. 

[Frobby]

On 6/22/2023 at 12:26 PM, Tony-OH said:

Somewhere around year two, Hyde became the "sing praises effusively" of all of his players. In year one, he was more matter of fact when guys "needed to improve" but he either was "talked to" or decided on his own that he was going to be the guy who always praised his players in public. now I'm not saying he's wrong for doing that, and I have no idea what he says behind closed doors, but I also don't take too much out of what he says when he's signing those praises!

In fairness, he has a more praiseworthy team. 

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, wildcard said:

I think its both.  Hyde has made it clear he thinks Frazier is a headed player that helps the team win.

He does indeed have a head.

Proof:

[Sanity Check]

Where is Jeff Gilooly when you need him??  

Just kidding, and no, I don't condone violence.  If Frazier is not traded by the deadline, then he walks away at year end for nothing....and unless he ends up on the disabled list, I don't see a path to Westburg being on the major league club this year because of the crowded 40-man situation....unless Urias or Mateo are somehow moved out of the organization.

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, Frobby said:

In fairness, he has a more praiseworthy team. 

I think it is part of the whole job field moving into more of a personality management focus.

Good vibes all the time is the industry norm.

[owknows]

6 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

The only way in which the money was mentioned is that for a team with a limited budget folks would have rather the money been spent elsewhere.

And certainly good reason from that perspective.